Loading ...As soon as news spread that Victor Cruz said his agents and the New York Giants were in agreement on the foundation of a contract, folks around here did two things: wait for the numbers and wonder how this will effect the looming negotiations with fellow wide receiver Hakeem Nicks.
While it's great news for the Giants have Cruz in the fold for the long haul, and we'll be interested to see if this contract reaches the highest echelons of NFL stud wideout contracts (we doubt that it will), locking up Cruz is only half the picture.
Nicks, the first-round pick who has lived up to his draft status and proved to be one of the top-5 (ish) wide receivers in the game, will likely be in line for a bigger deal than Cruz. Nicks' rookie contract runs through 2013 (at a $2.425 million base in the final year) so there's a little more time to work on it.
One thing's for sure, the Giants won't roll into this offseason with Cruz' situation in the air. Just one of many things to check off Jerry Reese's long off-season to-do list.
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has an actual contract been confirmed for victor?
Ralph Vacchiano ?@RVacchianoNYDN
Victor Cruz says there’s “no timetable” on contract talks. “The only thing in place right now is the structure,” he added. #NYG
Yeah, I wouldn’t call this a done deal just yet. All that really means is they’ve probably agreed on length of contract, voidable years, etc. Exactly how much cash money is involved is still going to be the toughest part.
Meh, I think total dollars is probably part of the framework as well. How and when it gets doled out are the sticking points.
But if Cruz wants to be here and wants to talk contract now and things having progressed this far, it’s hard to see this one going off the rails.
“Total dollars”, yes. But we all know total dollars means nada.
That’s why the devil is in the details. How much is fully guaranteed and when precisely does it get paid out? That’s where these things fall apart.
You have to wonder whether other players will now pipe up, or whether Victor’s role as a star, and the cheapness of his current contract, have given him the unique freedom to be a squeaky wheel, which Reese doesn’t always tolerate. (See: Osi Unmenyiora.) Of course, it’s also about what kind of squeaky wheel, and Cruz has conducted himself well.
When will Bennett, Beatty, Rivers, or KP, to name a few, start to talk about their desire to remain in Big Blue?
Cruz is a unique asset and we will find out it is a “player acceptable, team-friendly” deal because we could maintain control at a rational price for two seasons and force him to take the injury risk. He would be taking a big chance if he doesn’t sign.
Nicks will be signed unless he goes nuts and wants to be paid as the top receiver in the NFL. Right now wouldn’t be a terrible time to start talking to him too. We have him for another two-and-a-half years if we wish, albeit at a much higher number for that last year because he would get “top 5 wide receiver” money as a franchise player. We cannot lose this guy and still be the kind of team we’ve become. But we could focus he and his agent on that injury risk if we strike quickly. By next year Reese loses a lot of leverage.
These two are just different from most pending free agents. They are impact players who get titles for you, not complementary players that you need but hope you can replace by reasonable means. These two, Eli, JPP, Beatty and possibly Prince and Joseph would be my guesses as to players Reese knows he MUST retain.
I’m curious how things play out with Joseph. That will be interesting. If he continues to develop he could cost a lot to retain. I suppose what I’m saying is does he end up being viewed as a Cornelius Griffin or Barry Cofield type talent or does he become the franchise caliber DT that you refuse to part with? We’ve let the former type walk when they were offered Snyder-bucks. Joseph has clearly not hit his ceiling yet, so it is very likely he comes closer to the franchise caliber DT than the Griffin/Cofield mold. Whatever the case I think that he is intriguing since he isn’t a no-brainer guy like JPP who you will undoubtedly commit big dollars to.
I agree that right now is an excellent time to talk to Nicks’ agent, if possible. This is the exact type of season that you want a player to have in terms of signing someone at a discounted rate. For all we know, next season Cruz may experience a “I just got paid slump” (not likely) and a healthy Nicks can explode for 90 for 1500 and 12 td’s. Good luck signing him in a scenario like that.
Here’s what I know: Reese will take nothing for granted. That means he will continue to acquire high quality players in the draft and through free agency, and know that they will receive the best development they can from this coaching staff. They’ll be groomed and instructed on how to be the best player in the league at their position. Most wont turn out to be that, but they’ll have a better shot than guys who get drafted to a team like the Raiders or the Chiefs.
I say this because it seems like people are overdoing it on the “can’t lose these players” stuff. Free agency is a b-tch and you can bet that we will lose at least 1 of these guys we all refer to as the “core” of our team. But that won’t phase us because our GM and our coach foresee these things and acquire talent to replace our losses, in spirit if not in truth. We’ll be fine.
You’re absolutely correct. I don’t necessarily think that when GM’s say that they will “consider all options” or “exhaust every avenue” they are dodging or evading the question. In reality, not blogoshpere , it is an extremely fluid landscape. Speculating scenarios is intriguing to me, but defining absolutes is difficult if not impossible. We have to view things in probabilities. There are players who, given their current trajectories, are highly likely to be re-signed such as JPP. Others are much less clear. It’s interesting to speculate on, particularly those who are good, not great, player.
+1
Maybe I didn’t express myself clearly but this has been my point. If our “can’t lose” list in the next 2 years is Nicks, Cruz, Joseph and Beatty. Then I think losing one of them a possible and one of the WRs is more likely than the others. I’m already assuming KP has a better than 50% chance of being gone. I excluded JPP because he’s not a free agent until 2015 though to make him more affordable it might be best to lock him up on a bigger Osi type of contract ASAP.
I’ve made that exact point, and fully agree, in regard to our developmental pipeline.
But there ARE players a GM decides he will go to the limit to keep, and those guys are few and far between but do include Manning, Cruz, Nicks, and JPP. All four are unique talents that come along very rarely and someone a level below them cannot be coached up to be a linchpin for championships like all four of these guys are.
Beatty and Joseph are in that zone where you really, really want to keep them but it depends a lot on who would replace them. Neither is a truly great player at this point, but might become that with experience. They each play CRITICAL positions in the NFL and on the Giants. And I think Prince will get to that same level by next season. He plays corner so if he’s “near great” you have to pay up because corners, too, don’t just come along every year. He should get a “Webster-like” contract and Webster should be long gone when he does.
There are a LOT of others Reese will certainly want to retain, with very good reason. But they are all “Boy, we’d love to have him back” rather than “We cannot compete for championships without this guy”. Big, big, big difference.
Cruz gets signed “early” because his status as an UDFA and current contract situation make it the cheap way to do it. In other words, the Giants actually have some leverage on the kid because they can still have him for next to nothing for 2 more full seasons…so he has incentive to take what he can get now.
I don’t see this as setting a precedent for other veteran players who have generally already made money, are currently making good money, and are mostly arguing over their standing vs. their contemporaries.
Hakeem Nicks has a 1st round draft pick contract. He has much more to lose by suggesting a hold out, etc. His injury situation doesn’t help his leverage either. That being said, if this all works out as I think it will (barring any changes in landscape), Hakeem will wind up with a larger contract than Cruz within the next 12-18 months.
…and that may very well become a bone of contention 24-36 months from now pending their performance trajectories. Of course Cruz will then be the proverbial middle aged vet whining about his “stale” contract like the Osi Umenyiora of recent years and JR will be much more likely to let him ripen on the vine for the waning years of that contract.
You’re right about Nicks getting a bigger number of dollars but I am not worried about the “trajectory” of Nicks’ performance. It will justify the contract. And Cruz will have zero complaints because having Hakeem on the outside will assure him that he will be more productive rather than having to take the burden of the top receiver on the team. They both help each other and both should wind up rich young men.
I’m not worried about it either, just saying that “stuff happens”.
If three years from now Nicks is pulling in a $6M yearly salary to Cruz’s $3M (remember, these guys all conveniently forgot how much up front money they got when they start looking at these numbers) and he’s putting up more yards/TDs…it would be very easy for his agent to start making noise about how “unfair” that is.
JFunk- explain how we could have Cruz for 2 more seasons for next to nothing? His contract is up at the end of the season. Even if we franchised him we would pay him a ton. Cruz has only 8 more games to play under his rookie deal. There is no way to keep him for 2 more seasons on the cheap, no way.
He’s an RFA not a UFA this offseason. A first round tender costs $2.7 million. That’s cheap.
He’s a restricted free agent at the end of this year, which means we can sign him to a 1st round tender offer for about 1.5M. Then he could be franchised the following year for about $10M.
Of course you don’t necessarily want to see the $10M in a single year, but the point is that’s a long time for Cruz to have to wait to see the less money than he’ll be guaranteed in a new long term contract. Get injured or have a slump in the next 24 games and all that money disappears.
Seems to be a lot of hand wringing over who stays and who goes. As to Cruz, it wouldn’t surprise me to see a deal in the 5 year $30-35 million range with about $18 million guaranteed.
As to next year and where we find the money. If the numbers I’m looking at are correct it may not be as hard as some imagine. I have no idea what the cap hit would be to cut some guys so I’m going to assume the hit will equal their signing and misc. bonuses and we’ll save on their base salary. The numbers come from spotrac.com. That said here we go.
David Diehl – Diehl will be entering the final year of his deal next season. He’ll be 33 and is no better than a swing backup at this stage of his career. His base salary is going to jump from $1.2 million this year to $4.1 million next year. His cap hit next year according to spotrac will be a whopping $7.45 million. Either he takes a massive pay cut or they cut him. Cutting him could save $4 million. I say cut him.
Ramses Barden – He’ll be a free agent. See ya later buddy. His cap hit this year is $1.49 million. Give some of that to Hixon(UFA $615,000 cap hit this year), say another $500,000 – $600,000 to put him in the $1.1 -$1.2 million range. If he takes it great if not adios Hixon. If he does take it that gives us Nicks, Cruz, Randle, Hixon, and Jernigan plus either a draft pick or my gut tells me we’d see Douglas make the squad next year.
Keith Rivers – Athletic freak made of glass. His $2.5 million cap hit and pending UFA status makes things interesting. Can’t see the Giants offering him more than a one year take it or leave it prove it deal in the $1.5 – $2 million range.
Osi Umenyiora – He’s gone next year. I’m thinking to a team like Atlanta, where he’ll replace Abraham. Based on Spotrac his cap hit this year is $6 million($2.5 base salary). That’s a lot of cash freed up. With Ojomo, Tracy and let’s not forget Trattou(who was having a great camp before getting hurt) all cheaper and waiting in the wings I think it is the end of the road for Osi in NY. Love what he’s done, hate to see him go but somebody will pay him more than we will no matter what numbers he puts up this year. It’ll be rationalized that his numbers were down because he was a backup to JPP.
Corey Webster – According to spotrac, next year will be the final year of his deal and his cap hit will be $9.975 million ($7 million base). He’ll be 31 next year and if his play this year is the new normal than either a major pay cut is in order or he’ll get cut. Even if he rebounds and plays well, I think with Prince improving, Hosley getting major reps and whatever we can add via draft or reasonably priced veteran, Webster may not be long for the Big Blue world.
Ahmad Bradshaw – Love his toughness, heart and passion. Hate his poor vision and lack of patience. Too many minus 1 to 2 yard runs leaving this offense in long down and distance situations. He’ll have 2 years left on his deal after this season and his cap hit in each of those seasons climbs to $5.25 and $5.5 million respectively. Too much money for a guy who is not even the best back on the team in my opinion. Resign Andre Brown and let Bradshaw go. We won’t miss him. RB is the easiest position to replace, particularly when your starter is not a transcendent talent.
Michael Boley – I really like Boley. But he’ll be 31 next year, the final year of his deal. His cap hit is $5.9 million. I could see where he either takes a pay cut, gets cut, or signs an extension for an extra 2-3 years that reduces his cap hit by $2-2.5 million.
Chris Snee – I don’t think he’s going anywhere. He’ll have 2 years left on his deal after this season but his $8.78 million cap hit next year is too high. He already restructured once this year. Not sure if he can do so again next year. Maybe the Giants give him a modest 2 year extension that reduces his cap number by a significant amount.
There’s more and obviously the cap is flexible and fluid and these numbers aren’t guaranteed to be entirely accurate. What do you guys think?
The 1st rd tender of 2.7 M would be what the team that signs him pays him, no? But if the Giants want to keep him they would have to franchise him or give him a new deal. Am I correct? Or are you saying they could retain him for a 1 year deal at 2.7 M without franchising him?
Mike Wallace was an RFA this year. The Steelers placed the 1st round tender on him which he eventually signed. He’ll be paid $2.7 million this year.
got it – thanks
The “tender” offer is what you put on the table to the guy. He is then free to negotiate with other teams. If he signs an offer with another team, you can either match their offer to keep him or let him go and then that team owes you a 1st round draft pick.
So in more timely news, we get the Main Event matchup of the Greatest Quarterback Class of All Time this weekend, and it’s looking like we might see a fully healthy Giants defense. I may be speaking for myself, but I’m simply tickled over those story lines.
Yes, the Greatest Quarterback Class of All Time is 2004. 5 Championship appearances, 4 Championships, the only class with two (2) two-time champions. And they’re only about halfway home.
Steve Young (paraphrasing, after being presented with 1983 vs. 2004):
2004 is good, but those 1983 guys are Hall of Famers. I gotta give it to 1983. But! What about 2012?!
Ehh ok