Loading ...With just one preseason game left, the New York Giants' roster and playing time decisions are mostly coming to start into focus. One area that still has some question marks, however, is the wide receiver position. Sure, Hakeem Nicks and Victor Cruz are penciled into their roles but after that things may not be what they appear.
First things first; Domenik Hixon looks like himself so far and is probably your third receiver (when Nicks returns). He's a veteran, the coaches trust him and he can whatever WR position needed. Rookie Reuben Randle, however, is lurking not far behind. Along with Cruz, these two guys got extensive work with Manning and the first team last night. However, there's still a few questions after those top four., the biggest being whether Ramses Barden can hang around.
Barden came up with three catches for 46 yards and a touchdown last night (and a pass interference on another sure touchdown). He sure looked to be using his big body the way the Giants envisioned when they drafted him. In fact Barden was so good last night that when asked about rookie running back David Wilson's breakout performance, Coughlin shifted focus to Barden, praising the big wide receiver for his play.
Said Manning of Barden's play last night: "Ramses played great…that's what we've been looking for from Ramses over the past couple of years. See if he can step up and make some plays for us, and today, he did it."
But will it be enough to save his roster spot? Nicks, Cruz, Hixon, Randle and Jerrel Jernigan are guaranteed roster spots in front of Barden, and his lack of special teams play makes him an imperfect candidate for that sixth roster spot.
Speaking of perfect candidates for that last spot … David Douglas appears to be the Giants punt returner, taking three first half punts last night (one of which was very nice although called back by a holding penalty). That sounds like bad news for Barden, but we're starting to wonder if the Giants will carry seven receivers. They've done it before.
Needless to say, Big Blue will have some tough decisions to make in the WR unit. Good problems to have, we suppose.
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Douglas showed a nice burst on his returns. He even had a nice catch and run that he fumbled and luckily recovered. He seems pretty quick and doesn’t dance around. I’m fine with keeping him assuming he can also play ST and add depth.
Wasn’t it DePalma rather than Douglas who recovered his own fumble?
I could have sworn it was Douglas, but I could be mistaken.
It was Dan DePalma who fumbled/recovered. Not Douglas.
It’s easy to mix them up out there. DePalma wears #15 and Douglas wears #19 and it’s hard to tell the difference between the two numbers during action.
Looking at some of the players we cut, I wonder if some minor trades are in store. IMO we have 7 NFL caliber WRs and 8-9 LBers who are also NFL caliber. Now player like Douglas and Muasau while talented have no trade value. But I think players like Barden, Jernigan, Jones and Paysinger do have some value. Now I’m simply suggesting trading for backup OL help and/or CB help. Those are the only 2 areas where I see some shaky depth. Are CB Cweb, Prince, Hosley and Coe have proven to be quality players. TT is as well when healthy. But with TT’s health in question along with Prince and maybe Hosley as well we need another quality CB. Tryon and Johnson haven’t inspired confidence and I don’t know if our other vets are good enough. So why not use an area of strength to address an area of weakness. OL wise to be honest we are probably not getting get any LT help that’s better than what we have. But I think we could get a better player than Cordle, Pertrus or Capers offers.
However, I wonder if the best option to help our shaky backup center/guard situation is a familiar face. I think if recovered we should at least give a workout to Seubert because he’s exactly the type of player we need. Of course health is the key but his knowledge of the system would bring an added benefit.
Can you really trade players who will soon be cut?
Not all of them will be cut but some likely will, another other teams gets he advantage of knowing they get a player they want. The other teams would probably have a similar situation at OL or CB to ours at WR and LB.
You keep pushing this trade idea. You realize that player for player trades are rare in the NFL right? Barden has no trade value. If a former top 10 pick like Rivers gets sold for a late 5th rounder then a 3rd rounder who’s done nothing, lacks explosion and toughness and hasn’t been able to stay healthy as a backup has zero value. Jernigan? Really? Why do some around here want to toss this guy after a redshirt year? Greg Jones has less then zero value. We’d have to pay somebody to take him. Paysinger was a UDFA and gives us solid ST play and nice LB depth but you’re dreaming if you think a team is going to give up a top reserve OL or a 3rd or 4th corner for him.
There not as rare as you think. Seattle just traded linebacker Barrett Ruud to Saints. Philly traded 2 LBs to the Colts for a CB. And didn’t we trade for Rosenfels and Reynaud for a 5th round pick just 2 years ago. And don’t forget Ryan Grant an undrafted free agent was traded to GB for a 6th round pick and hadn’t done anything in a real game. It happens. We are talking about a minor trade.
You think other teams that don’t have close roster decisions as well? Maybe they have a younger player who they like but a vet that’s established. I guarantee you a player like Jernigan is wanted. He can excel a slot WR but we have Cruz. Jones isn’t great but he’s a solid backup LB with some upside. Who cares that Paysinger was undrafted, the question is can he play and help another team. These are end of the roster moves. I’m not trying to trade Barden for Revis.
I’m not talking about player for picks trades. You’re proposing player for player trades. The Ruud trade was for an undisclosed draft pick and he’s been a productive starter. The Eagles acquired a corner who allowed nearly 70% of the passes thrown his way to be completed. I’m thinking that’s not too hard to find. If you’re throwing out picks for players, fine I can see that, but some of these players you’re proposing just don’t have the trade value you think.
Player for player trades are less frequent but they do happen. I’m not talking about getting a starting type player. I’m merly saying it make sense to look at using players like Barden, Jernigan, Jones and Paysinger to upgrade positions that player like Cordle, Petrus, Tryon and/or Johnson may hold. That’s all. I’m just trying to get the best 53 we can. And maybe the player for player part is hard and we either a player for a late pick or give up a late pick for a player. I think we have great depth on this roster those are just 2 areas I question. And CB if Prince, Hosley and TT all are healthy isn’t an issue.
I understand the more likely outcome is to see who’s available and upgrade via players that are cut. But given that IMO we have some NFL quallity players who we could easily replace (I don’t think douglas is kept over Barden or Jernigan) with a player like Douglas it’s something I think is possible.
I’m just gonna come right out with it.
They should resign McKenzie to play RT and move Diehl to LT. If/when Beatty returns, Diehl can go to LG and Boothe can be our swing guy.
Brewer, Locklear, Capers…none of these guys are going to get it done. Unless by “it” you mean get Eli killed, in which case they can certainly be relied upon to accomplish that.
Not a bad idea but I think Mckenzie is better than Lockear today. I don’t have anything for or against Lockear and from what I have seen is he’s done a good job. Peppers is going to have some plays against anyone. I understand our depth is questionable at best but Lockear and the starters have played pretty well and very well in terms of pass blocking.
No one is going to trade picks or players for our garbage.
Barden, Jernigan, Jones and Paysinger are good players or at least players that have starting upside IMO but I guess not everyone sees that.
Would you want Reese to trade for those players if they were on other teams?
Yes. Take Jernigan he’s looked upon badly here because he can’t catch a punt. But he looks good at WR. The issue is he’s a slot WR and that’s not a position we need with Cruz. Look at a team like Dallas, Jernigan seems like a better more natural option than they have on there roster. Barden is the clasic WR with talent that looks like he might excel in a new environment better. Barden would be a nice Plax replacememnt for the Jets. Paysinger is a classic 4-3 WLB. A team with a questionable starter or backup might look at him. Jones to me looks like a fit as 3-4 IL or 4-3 MLB/SLB so he can help at multiple positions and is good on special teams.
I know we would never trade with Dallas or the Jets, just talking about the roster fit.
Coughlin says Austin is headed for the IR … I mean ‘he had a setback’.
Damn!
The only way trading excess talent at one position to build another can work is to trade the player that actually has value and then insert the player we believe has value. For example, if we believe Douglas, Barden, and Stanback are NFL players, instead of convincing other GMs of that, we’d have to “role the dice” by promoting one of them into real playing time while trading one of the guys who has value around the league. The only guys we have at WR that have any trade value on our roster are Cruz (1st rounder), Nicks (1st rounder), Randle (3rd rounder), and that’s really it. Jernigan possibly a 6th or 7th, but probably not even that. So it’s either move one of the top 3 and slide the rest up or no deal.
Wow – this 2010 draft might end up being JRs worst dream.
If Austin is headed to IR, the odds of him ever being a player just got cut in half.
check that 2011
Austin was a risk/reward pick. Looks like they lost that bet, but it was worth making.
Hixon is making this team.
Paysinger is too.
Barden certainly saved his roster spot.
I saw the tape of the first half. All of this bellyaching is ridiculous. They have serious depth issues at corner and on the offensive line. Those may well be fixed this week and even if not, they are probably the envy of an awful lot of teams in this league. Some of you have lost all perspective. Step back and ask yourself “Can this team compete to get into the playoffs?” unless your answer is negative you should calm down. And if it is negative, look around and the competition and think about it some more. You’re comparing the Giants to an ideal. They just have to beat teams that also have flaws.
I just don’t see how we can keep Austin after he’s literally done NOTHING in both years. I’m all for giving him a chance next year to “prove it”, but other than that do we really risk keeping him on the roster even though he could not play for a while? I’d rather do that with TT than Austin…plus we have guys who could fill in at DT.
In the long tradition of many looking at the glass two-thirds empty around here, no one seems to have mentioned what I was just told: that Austin’s setback was relatively minor, and that Beatty is expected to practice this week.
Also, did anyone bother to mention that Coe played well and that Barden did a good job in two special teams plays?
Unbelievable.
Was Coe the one who batted the pass that Marshall made an acrobatic adjustment and caught? Because that was a good play even though it didn’t go our way. And I’m liking Coe a lot more than Bruce Johnson. He followed up a solid play with a horrible play (TD).
But as for Austin…it originally seemed like he’d be back very soon, but now they mentioned a “little setback”. Any setback is bad, but it’s even worse for a guy who has had nothing but setbacks in his career and hasn’t even played in a game for 2 years. I just don’t have any faith in him. Barden is a different story because he had a very solid game. He used his size to not only catch a ball but also drew a pass interference.
I’m with FF55 here. The pessimism around here is crazy. Austin has had a MINOR setback. Yes, it’s a setback, and yes, he hasn’t done anything in the NFL yet, but this is only his second season! People aren’t jumping all over Jernigan the way they are Austin. I understand the circumstances are different, but give Austin some more time to prove himself.
Also, all this talk of cutting or IRing TT is ridiculous. The guy will play at least a half of this season, probably more. I can understand concerns about carrying an injured player as it takes up a roster spot, but JR is not going to IR or cut a productive-when-healthy player who WILL play this year and was just signed to an extension.
And to those who think TT will just be waiting around if we cut him consider this; when we released Ballard, who’s injury was much more serious that TT’s torn/re-aggravated ACL, he was claimed by the Patriots. And Ballard won’t play this year, and probably not the whole season the year after, meanwhile TT will play probably at least half this season, probably 3/4.
TT is not going anywhere. Book it.
I agree with you on most of this except TT. Ok let’s say we know TT will definitely play half the season but at what level? Just because he can play doesn’t mean he’s the same player or even as good as a Coe level player. Look at Steve Smith even a year and a half later. Yes, Hixon recovered well but if I remember correctly his was only a partial acl and we still don’t know if he will hold up over the whole season. TT now is a risk even if he becomes “healthy” because we don’t know what he will be. Holding a roster spot that long is hard for someone with those questions. So we all understand we could lose TT if we cut him. But just like the Ballard situation it could be well worth the risk. FYI the pats cut Ballard so he’s available. Holding on to TT for next year makes little sense because I doubt we are paying him a 6 mil bonus with his recovery issues. It comes down to a matter of what he can do this year.
Some of us mentioned Coe played well. Not only did he guarantee a roster spot but if I had to guess today he will start the season as our #2 CB. I think Hosley will play (and Prince wont’) but I don’t see our coaching staff wanting a rookie to have to start outside then have to play the slot nickel positio as well. It’s possible but I think Coe has shown enough to think he can do a pretty good job. Also the Dallas WRs are big and physical which matches up well with how Coe plays.
That’s great news about Asutin but even better about Beatty. Austin is a nice to have but truthful his presence likely doesn’t move the needle much on what we can accomplish this season. Beatty if he plays like some of us feel he can and line up every week we can be a great team. We can be a SB contender regardless but Beatty not only improves our starting OL but backups as well which moves us up a notch on possibilities as a team. Lockear could even be our top backup at the guard positions.
I didn’t see Barden made any good special teams plays.