Loading ...It's been a relatively quiet summer for the New York Giants so far. The cold tub incident sure got everyone in a tizzy, but there's not a lot of drama surrounding the team. Heck, even Osi Umenyiora was in camp practicing happily. But, much like Tom Coughlin and Eli Manning, around here we don't mind a lack of tabloid drama…we've got plenty of other things to talk about.
If you're a regular in our comments section, you've probably been a part of the discussion about most of the things we'll talk about. With the biggest preseason audition coming this Friday, it's time to look at how these some of these story lines have unfolded through the first two preseason games and what we'll be looking for the rest of the way. Drop into the comments section to put your two cents in on these story lines, tell us which other one's you've been interested or just to call me an idiot.
Ramses Barden
Why not start with a guy who might be the most talked non-rookie on the offensive side of the ball this spring and summer. You know things are going smoothly for the defending champs when the biggest issue is whether a fourth-year wide receiver can finally fulfill the potential his size indicates he might have.
Unfortunately, Barden (despite Hakeem Nicks' injury giving him a golden opportunity) still hasn't shown the ability to separate from defenders, be physical or, you know, make plays. G101 nation seems wholeheartedly ready to turn the page on King Ramses and even Barden's longtime apologists (myself included) are starting to find it hard to argue.
Where we go from here: While most around these parts are tired of being teased by Barden's potential and are ready to turn the page on his career as a Giant, it's far from a foregone conclusion. He's got two more preseason opportunities to go off and the Giants are notoriously reticent to give up on draft picks, especially at wide receiver (see: Carter, Tim and Moss, Sinorice). With Nicks' broken foot and the total lack of experience behind Domenik Hixon on the depth chart, no one should be surprised to see Barden play out his rookie contract in blue.
Our take: If Hixon is ahead of Barden on depth chart and Reuben Randle is anywhere close to being game ready, we don't really see a spot for Barden. Isaiah Stanback offers better athleticism and special teams production, and it doesn't sound like anyone's going to be upset if the team takes invests in a youngster like Dan DePalma or David Douglas instead of waiting for Barden another year. My guess is Stanback gets the call: he's a plus special teamer who has the athleticism (and has shown the ability in preseason) to make a play or two if he finds his way onto the offensive field. DePalma and Douglas seem like good practice squad candidates.
We suppose it's natural for there to be so much discussion about a guy who is penciled in as the number two running back, but boy have we been surprised by how polarized the conversation has become. On one hand, some of us see a serviceable if spectacularly unspectacular guy who is a pretty good pass blocker and thus a safe but unexciting 3rd down back who will get 7-10 carries a game to spell Bradshaw. On the other hand, some are ready to run the guy out of town.
While this writer (and I stress "this writer" because I know there's a big difference of opinion among our staff on Ware) tends to side with the first group, there's no doubt that Ware's detractors have legitimate gripes: Ware's neither particularly fast nor physical and he's never, well, done anything exciting in his four years with the team.
Where we go from here: at the end of the day, Ware's tenure as the true number two guy probably depends less on anything DJ Ware does and more on how quickly some of the younger running backs earn their way onto the field. While the Giants trust Ware enough to go into battle with him September 5th, David Wilson wasn't drafted in the first round to sit on the bench for very long and it won't be surprising to see him earn carries early on. Da'Rell Scott also might push for some work as a guy who showed last preseason some serious speed, playmaking ability and now has a full season and offseason under his belt.
Our take: look, while no one is going to get excited about Ware and we'd all certainly love Wilson and Scott to push their way up the depth chart sooner rather then later, the Ware haters might have to chill out a bit. This one, it just is what it is. It takes time to prep young players and the Giants are in a transition phase from the Bradshaw-Jacobs era. In the meantime, it sure could be a lot worse than DJ Ware, right?
Right?
Run blocking
Man, oh man. We're not even sure what to say about it anymore. This is a problem that reared its ugly head in 2010, became a full blown crisis in 2011 and shows no signs of letting up after two preseason games in 2012. It's getting hard to watch. Actually, it was hard to watch all last year; now it's turning into a bad joke. Did anyone else just feel hopeless every time the Giants lined up in short yardage last year? And finding yourself on just hoping Eli was going to be throwing on 3rd-and-2 ? As mentioned when we discussed DJ Ware, the Giants have some exciting young options at running back but something's got to give up front for it to matter.
Where do we go from here: Look, there's plenty of reason to hope for improvement: new tight end Martellus Bennet is a plus run blocker, center David Baas is healthy and will have a full offseason with the team for the first time and Will Beatty will hopefully come back from his back problems and settle down the LT position. We're two preseason games from when the games start counting, so this coaching staff and group of guys is going to have to figure out how to make it work.
Our take: It really has been tough to watch and anyone who knows Tom Coughlin knows it pains him more than it does us, but we suppose if it wasn't a big enough problem to derail a Super Bowl run we can't complain too much, right? And we can at least relish in the fact that when Eli's running game was the worst in the league and worst it has ever been for him, he had the best season of his career and carried the team through the playoffs and brought home a Lombardi on the strength of his arm. But that doesn't mean it isn't hard to watch.
At the end of the day, Big Blue finished dead last in team rushing last year…so it can't actually get any worse, can it?
Photo Credit: Mike Gannon
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Nicks, Cruz, Randal, Jernigan, Hixon, Douglas, DePalma, Stanbach and Barden
Douglas and DePalma to the PS; keep 7?
Keep 6 and release either Stanbach or Barden?
I wonder if even one 5 catch game against the Bears this weekend can save Barden. It seems to me that he isn’t playing for the 4th WR spot, but for the 5th or 6th; but as Simon points out he costs nothing and JR hates to give up on his draft selections (although Sintim is now gone and Beckum is likely to soon follow – it’ll be intersting to see if they IR Beckum after Week 6 or release him outright)
If we only keep 3 RBs on the active roster, Ware has to go as he has no upside; despite what people see as Scott’s fatal limitation (lack of lateral ability) he has what you can’t coach – flat out speed – and at least on one run last week he showed he could hit the line really fast and gain 4 yards before the defense could react — on a line that can’t block that could be a valuable asset
the O-Line will be the demise of the 2012 squad if demise there be
everyone is focused on the absence of the run game due to the complete inability of the line to move anyone off the ball — and rightly so — but the pass protection is right there with the run blocking; that is to say, really bad
We have a veteran QB whose greatest skill is reading the defense, slipping rushers, and being in sync with his receivers; and, we have terrific skill players at WR; so we somehow can cobble together points; but because the line is so utterly and thoroughly dreadful – tackle to tackle – our offense depends heavily on the big play. Last year there were so many it made your head swirl. But the Jet game displayed our inability to finish off drives inside the 20. Unless there is vast — and by vast I mean uber gigantic stupendous monumental and unprecedented — improvement in the play of these second-rate linemen, the Giants are going to struggle to score mightily this season
Given the utterly horendous line play matched with the crazy good skill positions, the one thing I was hoping to see this summer (and thus far have been disappointed by its absence) was the return of the screen pass featuring Dave Wilson or Da’Rel Scott. At least such a play might allow us to occasionally
capitalize on the porous pass protection
I don’t think we only keep 3 RBs, but if we do I’d be even more adamant that it will be Ware. He’s the one guy on the roster that can do it all. He does it all in a perfectly unimpressive manner, but he gets it done none the less. If Bradshaw gets hurt, you really want to depend on Scott to take 10 snaps a game and pick up blitzers?
Interesting statistical note regarding the reliance on the big play. I don’t remember the number off the top of my head, but the Giants led the league in down field passing attempts and percentage (ball traveling 20+ yards in the air) by a wide margin last year. I’m pretty sure nobody else was even in the same zip code.
With Bradshaws injury history and no proven players behind him I dont think you can risk carrying only 3 RBs. Even if we are confident in Wilson, I don’t Ware is proven enough to handle a big load if needed. Both Scott and Brown are unproven. And putting Martinek on PS is little help because he does provide the same skills Ware, Scott or Brown provide.
Our OL doesn’t suck at all pass blocking. SF was one bad game. But the last 6 games excluding SF and this preseason the pass blocking has been good. If you have worries that’s fine but so far there’s no proof to back that up.
you can’t go just by sacks
Eli was the most pressured QB of any QB in the playoffs — which makes Eli more impressive, but is an indictment of the o-line
To think we traded up for Ramses too. 3rd & 5th to the Eagles. He was supposed to contribute right away in the red zone too. Meh.
Okay, I’m going to reveal a mental illness I have. Here it is:
I have an irrational hatred of Kevin Gilbride.
There, I said it. Yes, I know he has two rings with us. But I still can’t stand him. Why am I bringing this up?
Because I blame a lot of the running game problems on him. The plays are predictable and easy to stop. You could see it right away in last week’s game when the Jets crept up to the LOS with 9.
I know Eli should check out of the play and I yell at him to do it. But for some reason he can’t hear me.
Plus, I like Eli.
But I’m mentally ill and I can’t stand Gilbride, so I blame him.
Well you may or may not be correct, but using a preseason game as an example is a non-starter.
I’m also not convinced that these plays are quite as predictable as people like to think. I’ve got a couple friends that believe they can call them out too. They do it a lot during the game when I watch with them. The only problem is, at the end of the half or game, they only seem to remember the two times they were right and have conveniently forgotten the dozen times they were wrong.
Exactly.
the shotgun draw predictable?
hah!
you’d think we ran that play 6 times a game
wait a second…….
I think the average was 6.3 times per game last year.
Good piece by Simon, and good comments.
G-MenFan, I suspect Eli doesn’t want to audible out in that situation because no one wants him exposed to a big pass rush in preseason when we don’t have an offensive set that could protect him. You may see the same sort of situation against the Bears (and btw, THIS is the game in which we should worry about Eli because the Bears have a very good pass rush and our starters will play a lot).
I don’t care about Barden at this point. Keep him, don’t keep him. But KEEP Stanback. I’ll say it again. He’s this season’s version of David Tyree or Devin Thomas. He could be a good gunner, a terrific up-man on punts (returns nd kicks), and he can catch a pass for you if you need it. He can also take a shotgun snap and run the ball successfully. So if keeping Barden costs them Stanback I’m 100% against it.
DJ Ware still has his uses. He’s still a pretty decent third-down back, and could play the role of a #2 back if necessary. He’s certainly more trustworthy than the youngsters when it comes to protecting Eli. So he’s not going anywhere. No way Scott or Brown leaps ahead of him on the depth chart.
Offensive line? Well, we’ll know a lot more after Friday about their ability to protect Eli, and whether David Wilson can run successfully behind these guys even when facing a very strong front seven. I’m still in a wait-and-see mode in regard to the line because as of now we don’t even know who will play where. Yes, I’m very “concerned”, but I think panic is premature. And I still insist we will run successfully against Dallas on September 5.
Sorry diaagree on Stanback. He’s not worth keeping 7 WRs considering our other positions. Either he beats out Barden or he shouldn’t be onthe roster. While I agree Stanback brings some added value I think some of those are being overrated. Im not sure that even if Stanback is our 6th WR he’s active on game days. So while his special team talents sound nice I don’t think he has value over keeping another RB, DB or LB active. Then while he can play specials and be effective comparing him to Tyree or Thomas seems a bit much when those talents couldn’t keep him on a roster last year. Lastly, his ability to QB or run some wildcat look means nothing becUse we dont do that stuff.
My point isnt that Stanback couldnt be an asset to this roster. I just think WR skills assuming we keep only 6 WRs is far more important than the other talents.
See my post below. I understand your point but over the course of championship seasons guys like Stanback make their value known. I just love his versatilty and the different ways he could make plays. He probably won’t make the roster, but I think that’s a shame. I’d take him right now over Greg Jones or the #5 running back, and I wouldn’t miss a beat in deciding that.
Greg Jones has shown absolutely nothing. He has the stiffest hips I’ve ever seen. He looks like he plays in a suit of armor. And a #5 RB is running kill. Bradshaw will get dinged up, and who knows about Wilson, but I just don’t think we need 5. It’s overkill.
Getting back to Beatty and Austin, there isn’t any doubt that neither will be cut, and no one wants them IR’d. But the team’s options may be limited.
I think way too many around here don’t understand sciatica. It can make it impossible to get your uniform on, much less play. It could clear up with luck and a lot of physical manipulation, or it could linger for years, always a risk of acting up at inopportune times. The medical evaluation of Beatty, to which none of us are privy, may make it clear that the best thing to do is just keep him on the roster and hope to avoid flare-ups once he can play. But it may make it clear that he will not be able to play at all until, possibly, the second half of the season and even then not be reliable because he could suffer a relapse on any practice play or lift in the weight room or while getting into his car. If the doctors conclude it’s the latter then keeping Beatty even while he cannot play means dropping McCants to the practice team when he could be getting to work with Flaherty and move up the learning curve more rapidly so he could use that athleticism to compete for a job at tackle next year when they almost certainly will need reinforcements even if Beatty is back healthy on a one-year “trial” basis and Brewer has come on strong. It also means they probably cannot acquire a tackle after final cuts because they don’t have roster space (although they could do so and then IR Beatty). The point is that IR is very much still a possibility for this guy. It depends upon the medical prognosis.
In Austin’s case I think he’ll be okay, and probably on the roster and rarely suited up, BUT I still think he needs to show Coughlin something during preseason or he could get IR’d too. We all know that the two guys who will lead our defensive tackles are Joseph and Canty (I will be awfully shocked if he’s PUP’d when it sounds like he’s just weeks away from being able to play). Since Canty cannot open the season they need, ideally, three other tackles for the rotation (although Tuck could help out if it’s only for a few games, no one really wants that risk). We appear to have more than three good ones. Keeping Austin on the roster means one of them doesn’t keep his job. Bernard, Thomas, Kuhn and Hendricks all have talent. Rocky brings experience and is almost certain to be on the roster to start the season. If Thomas can stay out of trouble he has serious talent. And I think Kuhn has enormous upside. At this point I’d send Hendricks back to the practice team and hope he isn’t claimed. I think that works, so long as they feel they can carry 9 defensive linemen.
Just keep in mind, keeping Austin around, and certainly keeping Beatty (an enigma) around, will cost people jobs at the bottom of the depth chart at linebacker, defensive back, wide receiver, or tight end. Over the course of what we hope is a very long season we will eventually miss the guys who aren’t here. Coughlin knows that. That’s why you see disgust from him when he talks about Austin and Beatty (whose name he doesn’t even consistently pronounce correctly….he’s spending his time thinking about the players who are here and ready to go, not someone who isn’t available). They could cost us this season’s Devin Thomas (or this year’s Bear Pascoe making some key plays in the playoffs, or 2007′s Michael Coe who came in and finished the playoff game in Dallas when we had no defensive backs left).