Loading ...In the first edition of our New York Giants mid-summer storylines, we talked about a young receiver who who might be playing himself out of a job, a veteran whose preseason performance is not inspiring much confidence and an offensive line unit that's struggling to find answers in the running game.
In this defensive edition, we're going to talk about a young safety who is playing his way into a job, a veteran whose preseason performance is making us giddy and a defensive line unit that despite some injuries is busting with talent and competition and might be stronger than it's been in years.
Where Ramses Barden is in danger of losing his job, Will Hill is another guy who has been on all radars and at this point there's not much left to say. Hill has clearly already all but earned a roster spot; he was on the field in the second quarter with the starters in the week two preseason game against the New York Jets. And with the eyes he opened in camp and the physical play he's brought in preseason action, earning a roster spot might be just the beginning for young Mr. Hill.
Where we go from here: Now that Hill has opened eyes, his next job is going to be leap-frogging Tyler Sash on the depth chart. That Sash is suspended to start the season certainly won't hurt. The victim of Hill's success may be old friend Deon Grant, who now might have to wait for an injury for his phone to ring. The suspension for Sash and the possibility that Antrel Rolle has to play some slot corner in the nickel still leaves the door open for Grant.
Our take: Hill's name kept coming up in camp and OTAs and it's easy to see why: the kid is a ballplayer. He's fast, physical and comes downhill on ball carriers and blockers well and he's not afraid of hard contact. In short, he looks like he belongs. Fans seem to take extra pride in the coming out parties of late round picks and undrafted rookies, so Hill might soon become a fan favorite and perhaps another great find for Jerry Reese. Especially if Grant isn't resigned, we think Hill is in line for some substantial work early on in his young career.
Defensive tackle rotation
From the injury to Chris Canty to the first steps on the field by Marvin Austin to the signing of Shaun Rogers to the departure of Shaun Rogers to the eye opening play of youngsters Markus Kuhn and Dwayne Hendricks to the signing of former Denver Bronco Marcus Thomas, there's been no shortage of discussion and movement along the interior of the defensive line.
Exactly who will make this team and what role everyone will play in the rotation has been a constant. So far it looks like Linvall Joseph and Rocky Bernard will start the season as the starters with Chris Canty recovering from injury but expected to return at some point relatively early on. After that, it's anyone's guess with Austin, Thomas, Hendrick and Kuhn in a wild battle for roster spots and playing time.
Where we go from here: The Giants have primarily two decisions to make: 1) How many defensive tackles will they carry on the opening day roster and two) Which guys are going to make it and what will their roles be. Generally we'd expect the Giants to carry four defensive tackles, but with Canty on the shelf we wouldn't be terribly surprised to see the team start with five. But who? Marvin Austin can probably be considered a lock for a roster spot but has yet to definitively show he's ready to contribute.
As for that possible fifth spot, it looks from the outside to be a free-for-all between Thomas (who was signed when Rogers and Austin, who's now back up, went down), Kuhn (the rookie 7th-round draft pick who played well with the third string against the Jets) and Hendricks (who was on the roster in 2010 and spent all of 2011 on the practice squad and had a good showing in the first preseason game). With the exception of Joseph, all of these guys are still jockeying for jobs and playing time to some degree so we'll have our eye on the big boys up front these last two preseason games.
Our take: We're sure the team has a concrete plan of what they want to do, but at this point it really looks like an open book from top to bottom and some of these battles look like they could go either way.
On one hand, Rocky Bernard is penciled in as a starter. On the other hand, if Thomas shows in the next few preseason games to be a late free agent steal and is ready to contribute, is it so crazy that the Giants go with the youth and potential in Hendricks and/or Kuhn and give ol' Rocky his walking papers? Or perhaps Thomas, a guy sitting around waiting for a phone call two weeks ago turns out to be be nothing more than camp body, injury insurance who gets sent packing as soon as Canty is ready to suit up? Maybe Hendricks tenure on the practice squad gives him a leg up over Kuhn for that last spot. Maybe Kuhn plays so well next week the Giants are forced to give him a roster spot because there's no way they can slip him to the practice squad.
The point is that a lot of these things could or might or might not happen. Or plenty of other outcomes could arise. The last two weeks of preseason will probably make all the difference here.
In our mind, we trust the coaching staff and front office to make the right calls. We're just happy that we're talking about how to deal with a glut of talent up front. Good problems to have.
We all know all about Osi's storied and rocky career with the Giants. But this offseason has been a new chapter: coming off a season in which he proved his many doubters wrong (yes, myself most definitely included) wrong and showed he can still be as disruptive a force there is off the edge, he rolls into camp with no controversy, a new contract and nothing but smiles on his face.
Where we go from here: Just sit back and enjoy watching one of the games best rushers wreak havoc on our opponents quarterback. Welcome to the NFL Robert Griffin III. He'll get plenty of chances to beat one on one's on the outside and if he stays healthy a double digit sack total with a handful of his trademark forced fumbles and strip sacks wouldn't be all that surprising an outcome (he is in a contract year after all).
Our take: The guy just got a second ring, a raise, he's healthy and he's playing for a new deal; it's got all the making of something special. Perhaps best of all, he's having fun. Haz and I were talking about how awesome it was to see him sprinting down the field on Hosley's interception in a preseason game. And, by the way, did you see how fast he was moving?
If Umenyiora is productive this year but doesn't quite find the megabucks deal he envisioned (he is after all over 30, had his share of injuries and more of a situational pass rusher at this stage in his career), is it crazy to think the Giants might put together a decent offer during or after the season to hopefully let him finish his career in Blue?
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I just don’t think we’ll carry so many vetheran DTs. Rogers, Rocky, and Thomas. I think we’ll carry just one of those, unless they really play well the next few games (though Rogers may not even play this season). Thomas offers youth and run stuffing ability while Rocky offers decent play against the run and (at least in the past) the ability to penetrate the pocket. The problem is that Rocky is older whereas Thomas is closer to his prime. If Thomas shows up in the next few games then I think there’s a chance he could usurp Rocky. As for the youth movement, I’m very high on Kuhn and love Hendricks. I just hate the thought of losing one of them, but losing both would be terrible. There are a few injuries and suspensions that are currently going to make our roster closer to something like 49 instead of 53, and that really sucks because some of these guys deserve to make this team, but there may just not be enough room. Good overall analysis.
Despite there being a ray of hope for Rogers, I would call that a pretty long shot. My best guess is that if he ever plays a game as a New York Giant, its likely because he gets a call mid-season when the team needs a body.
Excatly.
But I do agree with Billy that Thomas can possibly knock Benard off the roster. The other options are inexpereinced so they they really can’t. While Thomas is young, he’s experienced enough to trust over Benard.
I think it would take a massive effort from Thomas to knock Bernard off the roster. Thomas would have to be a significant upgrade as Rocky knows the playbook and still has some gas left in the tank. Not to mention Thomas was signed off the street a week ago, while Bernard was signed much earlier in the offseason.
Simon you killed these two summer question parts. Excellent work especially on the DT situation. The only thing I might add is nickel CB because as you mentioned we still could go with Rolle. Though, I think we all want to see Hosley get a chance assuming he’s healthy.
Ralph Vacchiano ?@RVacchianoNYDN
I’d say “Don’t panic,” but that rarely works on Twitter … RT @MikeGarafolo: DE Jason Pierre-Paul is not at practice today. No word why yet
I will say this, when we were initially looking at Canty, Rogers, and Austin all going down it was scary. Are we even going to be able to field a team? Is Tuck going to move to DT (no I never actually thought that was a possibility)?
In short order, the conversation has turned from doom & gloom to how awful it is that some very talented players are going to have to be left off the roster because we have too many.
No matter what Tom & Jerry decide, the DT position should be well filled. I’m not going to worry about it being a weak link anymore.
Another good piece. You’re on a streak.
I agree all-around. Been saying for years the Giants should do what they possibly can to hold onto Osi, who is a unique player and a game-changer. I also was certain Will Hill was the real deal and am still stunned that the Giants were able to get him off the scrap heap. And you’re right, the defensive tackle situation is confusing and subject to a lot of change over the next two weeks.
But….I really do not see how over these next two games, which will include only 3 quarters, at most, of play by the starters, Rocky Bernard loses his roster spot. He is still good, he’s reliable, and he knows our system. The players around him on the defensive line know what to expect of him and what his reactions will be in particular situations. So I feel pretty certain that the three players who will be our top tackles on the depth chart will be Joseph, Canty and Bernard. And while I suspect we will go with five on the roster to start, one of them is going to be cut when Canty can return. You have to assume that they will keep Austin on the roster, and I think you also have to assume that the last guy to start the season will be Thomas unless Kuhn or Hendricks just goes crazy THIS FRIDAY, against players who are good players on the Bears’ front line. They’re probably going to the practice squad no matter what the risk of losing them.
+1
If we Do not think Canty will be ready by week 4 we should PUP him and still carry five Dtackles…we can carry Joseph, Bernard, Austin Kuhn and Hendricks to start the year…you may think that is too young and we need more experience but Hendricks has been in the system for a little over two years, and Tuck can move inside on a number of downs when we use our 3 DE sets. When Canty comes off PUP we can slip one of Kuhn or Hendricks to the PS depending on who plays worse or does not play at all. Thomas IMO is a veteran camp body. He will only have 3 weeks to learn the playbook and two preseason games before the cowboys. Unless he shocks all the coaches I do not expect him to take a roster spot…heck…we may keep Canty on the roster and not keep both Hendricks and Kuhn
GOAT56 — I had a few thoughts on that some of which will be shared with another one of these entries, but basically I think the situation simply boils down to health. Rolle is the nickel CB until Hosley is healthy. Hosely is the nickel LB until Thomas is healthy.
The other thought I had here was: don’t be surprised to see the Giants sign a veteran around cutdown day if they find someone they think can help them. After Webster, the Giants have absolutely zero experience in that unit.
If Hosley is healthy enough to play from the start I’m not sure that Thomas can knock him out of that spot. Hosley looks more natural than TT at the position and I think he can take it and run with it. TT was only pais 2 mil this year so I don’t think he will be given his nickel spot or even his starting spot back. If Prince and Hosley perform well I think TT stays on the bench. It was a competition anyways and TT got injured.
I agree. With Tryon and other playing poorly they definitely could be replaced with someone off of another roster. That’s why I suggested a minor trade could be a possibility for a 5th or 6th CB – not involving draft picks but a player on our roster that’s on our roster bubble as well.
FF55 — I don’t think there’s anything Bernard can do in the next two weeks to lose that job, but I do think there’s stuff the others can do to knock him out of a job. If Thomas proves he’s ready to be in the rotation out of the gate and two out of Austin/Kuhn/Hendricks inspire confidence in the coaches, I don’t think it’s out of the question.
It sure is more likely Bernard stays, but there’s still hope…
Assuming that Osi plays a healthy year he is gone. The only way to keep him would be to pay him the money of a (good) starting DE. I’m sure they will make him an offer, but it will be significantly below market value for a starting DE. With the premium demand for DE’s, someone will offer the money.
In all likelihood yes, but anything can happen over the next six months. I think that’s why this “good will money” was thrown at Osi this year. To make peace with him and keep the door open for the future.
JPP could herniate a disc trying to give Hendricks an ice bath. Or maybe Tuck wakes up with a bad case of the Mondays week 14 and retires. There’s a lot of ways Osi Umenyiora could become a much higher priority for the 2013 Giants than he appears right now.
I can’t believe no one is freaking out that JPP’s out for Friday
We wouldn’t insult Osi with an offer like that. I agree with F55 that we will make a decent offer its just a matter of does Osi want top dollar of stay with us? Mathis just got re-signed for 8 mil a year so on the open market Osi will get at least that much. He will have to take a hometown discount to stay.
I’m really nervous about JPP. If it was something minor then I think they’d just come out and say it; same for an in-house punishment from Coughlin. But to be so hush about it…I’m very nervous. He’s the one player on defense we cannot lose.