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There's a ton of blame to go around after the New York Giants followed up Week 15's historic collapse at the feet of the Philadelphia Eagles with a stinker of a blowout loss to the Green Bay Packers, 45–17.
But as the blame is roundly distributed, we here at G101 wanted to take a moment to ponder the balance of responsibility between the players and the coaching staff.
If you open a newspaper (or read G101), you'll know that while Coach Tom Coughlin may be back next year, he's certainly on the hot seat for now.
So, we ask, is that fair?
First, let's acknowledge that players flop beyond the controls of their coaches, as this week's game was a pretty fine example of simply failing to execute, particularly on the defensive side of the ball.
Just ask Deon Grant, who plainly admits to Pat Traina that "[The Packers] did everything we practiced for…At the end of the day, we didn’t do what we were supposed to do. We knew what was coming; we should have been able to attack it, but we didn’t.” Hard to blame Perry Fewell for that one.
Or Barry Cofield, who says that the Giants have been taught to do everything the right way, but for some reason the missed tackles and poor executions persist. "We have been taught to do everything the right way, we just haven't been doing it."
At some point, now on the offensive side of the ball, it's hard to pin all of Eli Manning's league–leading 24 interceptions on the coaching staff. And Tom Coughlin can't go out on the field with Ahmad Bradshaw and Brandon Jacobs to make sure they hold onto the ball.
KC Joyner over at ESPNNY.com uses Antrel Rolle's (admittedly, to Rolle's credit) awful play on Jordy Nelson's 89–yard touchdown as an example to make a broader point:
This is the kind of basic error that has haunted New York all year long and they frankly should not happen at the NFL level. That, and not the fact that the Giants have almost lost what looked at one point to be a Super Bowl-caliber season, is why Tom Coughlin's job could be in jeopardy.
Again, it's hard to blame Fewell for Rolle biting hard on a play action, but defensive meltdowns like what happened against Green Bay this week, or Indianapolis or Kitna's Dallas team earlier in the year sure are won't look too good on Fewell's resume. That's Joyner's point: it's not like Coughlin's hasn't been telling the offense not to turn the ball over, but he's the one going to get canned for them not listening.
But there's another side of the coin here.
For starters, Coughlin is presiding over his second year of colossal meltdowns (and looks likely to miss the playoffs again). Other arguments include the special teams units appearing unfixable, and the turnovers continuing, despite Tom's perennial harping on both issues. There's also the inconsistent offense, Coughlin's offense, that hasn't changed in years. Not to mention the hiring of Bill Sheridan.
But are any of these or other issues juicy enough to make you get on board with the likes of Steve Politi, who thought Coughlin looked like "a man without answers" after Sunday's loss? Or the New York Daily News' Gary Meyers, who thinks it's high time that Giants bestowed upon their franchise quarterback a new coach?
Whether Coughlin's seat gets hot enough to bounce him off of it remains to be seen, but for now we'll ask you guys the question: in the face of players who simply didn't execute, is it fair for the coach(es) to take all the heat?
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It’s on both, obviously.
But the New York Football Giants need a radical change and it’s easier to fire 3 (4 ?) coaches than 50 players.
Even if those collapses aren’t 100% on the coaching staff, a change in leadership is the only thing that could get something out of those players. If we keep the same staff, we won’t achieve anything until 95% of the current roster rotate.
That’d be a long decade …
I just read the end of the last post where people were running out the singular scenario that gets the Giants into the playoffs — Bears beat Packers; Giants beat Redskins.
After the past 2 weeks all I can say is “Really?”
Aside from the fact that the Packers will almost definitely beat the Bears (heck, the horrendous Jet offense just put up 31 on the Bear defense), there is no way the Giants beat the Redskins.
There is no team in the NFL that rolls over like dogs in the face of adversity quite like the Giants. The only way the Giants win is if the Packers beat the Bears early and the game is meaningless. Then they might put up 50 and get everyone on this site to say “What if…”; “Gilbride is the best OC in the league, look at his sats”; etc.
As far as Rolle goes hes been taking awful angles in the passing game throughout the season. Its been happening a LOT.
+1 There is a reason he got moved from corner to safety..Guy is awful in coverage..
if the giants do beat washington and the bears the packers, it will be another coughlin team making the playoffs by beating only bad teams and losing to all the good teams: ergo — 1 and done
Annoying repost… since it’s about Coughlin…
*****
So….
Under what circumstances would it be OK for TC to stay?
Scenario #1 – we get our customary last ticket to the playoffs… BUT then knock off the Eagles and ruin their season. I would sign up Gramps myself if that happens. No lie. Do that and all is forgiven. Results are what matter.
Scenario #2 – TC stays as HC, but the staff around him is replaced. Gilbride and Quinn at a minimum.. MINIMUM.. And I say this because we’ve seen it work. TC’s main failings are loyalty to the Clowns… and lousy gameday tactics. New assistants could fix both those problems.
Scenario #3 – A good, solid, deep playoff run. Hey, results… remember. If he can do it then you’ve got to yield to reality.
Having said all that I don’t truthfully expect any to happen. But if one does… well…
Krow
the devil’s got you
And I’m ready to make a deal. But it’s got to be a good one.
Seriously… not making the playoffs, a one-and-done, a 3rd spanking by the Eagles, another mysterious meltdown… any of those he’s dead to me. And I fully expect one to happen. Just laying out the redemption scenario… I mean it’s Xmas.
remember, the devil always trades immeiate gratification for long term pain
We’ve had the pain… when’s that gratification getting here?
The gratification was 2007 miracle run and the long term suffering is the last 3 seasons..
To answer Simon’s question…
Absolutely not. It’s not fair that the coaches take all the blame. The players are professionals, and it should not require a ‘Gipper Speech’ every game to get them motivated. They should not have sporadic meltdowns. They should not lose concentration. They should not be on Twitter telling us how they don’t care.
But unfortunately that’s not the case.
So it falls on the coaches to be the adults. Right or wrong that’s how it is. And making 53 cases of arrested development play at a high level is part and parcel of the job of an NFL coach. It comes with the territory.
That’s where Coughlin and Clowns are failing. Sure, it’s a sad commentary on the state of professional sports. But that’s the deal. And they all know it. Life in the NFL… it’s not fair.
Just going to say once again, the best approach is to wait until the season is done and then evaluate top-to-bottom. There is something missing, but the entire story isn’t told yet. And I continue to think that the management structure of the Giants is one of the main culprits. Look at the teams in the NFL in which the real power in regard to football resides in the ownership rather than a real football guy. It’s the Giants and the Cowboys. Both very talented but underachieving teams.
The Mara family is still thinking that they live in the days of Papa Halas and Paul Brown, when the owners also ran the team. And the Tisches are one of the few corporate families in which a family member still has vast power within the corporate heirarchy, so were probably happy to agree as part of their buy-in that John Mara could be “the football guy” for the franchise.
Give me Bil Parcells (or any of about half-a-dozen others) as the Director of Footbll Operations, to whom the GM and the Head Coach report, or a structure in which the Head Coach reports to the GM, and I think this team takes off. I think the current arrangement hurts the team, and I’ve been saying this for so many years that it’s starting to bore me, so I assume it bores all of you.
I may not be one of the most expert people in the world in regard to football, but I’ve been proved to be a pretty darn good leader of organizations large and small, and in that regard I certainly know what I’m talking about. I’m right about the above, and I damn well know it. It’s a fundamental weakness of this franchise and I could recite chapter-and-verse as to how it has weakened the team, but now isn’t the time for that.
FF, depressing, but perhaps accurate. the problem with your scenaio is that it will never en. Mara’s a yoing guy and obviously interested.
that being said, unlike Dallas where Jones brings in talented butquestionable character guys, Reese seems to always bring in character guys.
I still maintain it is ALL coaching. there are too many examples over time where new coaches come in and take the same players and make the team improve almost over night.
I may overstate how bad Coughlin and Gilbride are, but 7 years of terrible meltdowns and blowouts and underperforming don’t lie
and the 1 magical year was when Spags was here and look what he is doing in his 2d year in St. Louis with a rookie QB, no Wr’s, a a group of cast off Giants on defense. Freddy Robbins had a monster game Sunday by the way if anyone was watching.
Coaching matters and for whatever reason this coaching staff is getting the least outof these players possible.
I truy hope management sees thatand heads in a different direction beginning immediately after this Sunday’s embarrasing loss to the Redskins.
Otherwise, you, DEMO and me will be back at it next year — me railing against the staff and predicting 4-12 abominations; DEMO insulting me and arguing Coughlin is such a good coach and Gilbride such a good offensive mind that we are sure to get to 10-6 and that elusive 6th seed; and you counselling, just wait, just wait, hope springs eternal.
and of course, if history be our guide, we will race out to 6-2 – beating 6 bad teams and losing to 2 good ones – only to collapse under the weight of a schedule to put 5 good teams in the second half of the season.
Fred robbins was great on sunday and he has been a very valuable member of that team….case in point see what Chris Long has been doing this year!
Like
Kujo, from the other thread. Like Janoris Jenkins, good cover guy. Not sure if hes a first rounder yet, might be more of a mid 2nd. depends on how fast he is. Wouldnt mind him at all, but maybe not with our first rounder.
You know who Jenoris reminds me of though? Asante Samuel. Very agressive, good ball skills but gets burnt from time to time going for the pick..
See, that’s exactly who he reminds me of. Very similar skillset. I always thought that the Giants made a huge mistake by not going balls-out for Asante a few years back. Sure he’s no Revis or Asomougha. But he’s the sort of player who changes the way an offense, and specifically a quarterback, plan out their passing attack. (That is, unless your names are Gilbride, Kevin and Manning, Eli.) He’s not perfect, but he’s instinctual and the definition of a defensive catalyst.
While everyone is falling over themselves looking for “the next Revis,” I’d be thrilled to have someone with the skillset and knowledge base of Asante. If our assessment is right, Reese would be a fool not to target that sort of player.
Wasn’t it Pat “the Rat” Riley who once said that it becomes harder for teams to continue to respond to a coach after going through several seasons of continued disappointments? Like Shanahan with Denver, Gruden in Tampa or Brian Billick in Baltimore, sometimes a team just needs a new leader. I would prefer one whose first goal is to fire the two idiots Killdrive and Quinn.
We have a franchise qb who is entering his prime. We need an oc to tailor his scheme around the talent at his disposal. Gilbride needs to go. Our offense becomes stagnant and predictable towards the end of the season. I still think TC is a good leader but a change is needed. Our defense needs one more year under Perry plus a few more pieces. While we where #2 in d, the inconsistency is driving me mad. I’m looking at the rolle signing as a waste. He hasn’t been ccbrown but I expected a playmaker. I will be rooting for them to make it to the dance buy it will be bittersweet if they do as changes will unlikely occur.
some good points in here WVChirodoc.
I agree that Coughlin seems to be a good leader and the players really like him and respect him. His biggest problems are loyalty to this coaches and not knowing when to shift whether its with adjustments during game day or week to week because of the complexity of the option routes that Gilbride has for example…I believe he needed to step up and tell his OC that we need to make changes on our routes and thinking ahead offensive series.
I still say it, week 16 and we have just about a botched play, or miscommunication on every series….THAT SHOULDNT HAPPEN!
I also think that maybe his Coordinators do not fear the hammer that TC can bring down on them. Which again I blame TC for…..we have seen time and time again that the DCORDS and even Gilbride get into it with TC…..
Listen we as fans are not in on the day to day meetings they have and so we really do not know the truth when it comes to preparation HOWEVER, we can all go by results. And the results are this….2nd half collapses, not being able to beat good teams, constantly shooting ourselves in the foot etc etc etc.
SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE DONE.
and from what I am hearing TC’s days are numbered unless something drastic happens to this team over the next few weeks.