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Loading ...According to Jim Sorgi’s agent, Matt Brei, the quarterback is schedule to meet with the New York Giants for a workout sometime today.
The six-year NFL veteran and long-time Manning family friend seems like an ideal candidate for the backup job now that David Carr has officially signed with the San Fransisco 49ers. After six seasons of observing the best quarterback the NFL has to offer, there’s no doubt Sorgi would bring a mental value to the Giants.
In his six seasons with Indianapolis, the former sixth-round pick appeared in 16 games and completed 99 of 156 passes for 929 yards, six touchdowns and one interception.
In addition to Sorgi, Ralph Vacchiano of The Blue Screen, the Giants are also expected to take looks a both Jeff Garcia and Mark Brunell.
On a non-quarterback-related note, Vacchiano also reports that New York is expected to host kick-off specialist Rhys Lloyd on Tuesday.
Scheduled to be a restricted free agent, Lloyd wasn’t tendered by Carolina which means if the Giants do sign him, they won’t owe the Panthers any compensation. However, this is all based on the assumption that he even makes it to New York in the first place, as he’s scheduled to meet with the Minnesota Vikings today.
Lloyd recorded 21 touchbacks on 72 kickoffs last season. In comparison, Lawrence Tynes had only six on 86 kickoffs.
2:00 UPDATE – Jim Sorgi has been sent for a physical; a good sign he’s on the verge of signing with Big Blue.
eBay Bidding:
- If you’re a collector of Giants memorabilia, then you should check out this eBay auction. A percentage of the winning bid will be donated to Giants 101. I’ve seen this flag in person and can verify that the seller is legit. It was owned by a long-time Giants fan who traveled to camp over the last (nearly) 20 years and collected signatures.
get Lloyd in here, please.
Do you have any background info on this kid?
a kickoff specialist is a necessity it was awful watching the ball land at the ten the majority of the time giving the opposing offense good field position did not help the D at all.. That rlly has to change
Yeah I wouldn’t be that pissed off if they held an extra roster spot for a kick off specialist. Especially if it’s Sinorice Moss or CC Browns roster spot….
The moment I saw Sorgi released I figured he’d at least pop up on the radar. At this point, I’d roll with Sorgi. Better than Derek Anderson or Rex Grossman or something like that….
How do we know if Sorgi is better? He hasn’t really played.
How can anyone not be better than Rex Grossman?
We need to get rid of Tynes in my opinion. I don’t feel comfortable when he lines up for a FG. I have lost all confidence in him. I know he has made a lot more then he has missed but he lives in that 15% miss range.
It’s nice to see the Giants active this early. They are putting in some good effort with the moves they are making.
Field position is a lot more important than keeping dead weight like Moss or Brown. The Giants have suffered from weak legs on kickoffs for far too long. Naturally it would be nice to have a kicker that could do everything, but Coughlin is married to Tynes so he’s not going anywhere.
I dont know whether Garcia or Sorgi would be better for the Giants – Im supposing the money is the bottom line
As far as Tynes goes , I cant see having a kickoff specialist only – Im not particularly a fan so a little competition is definitely a good thing – I have cringed every single kickoff and the extra 50 or 60 yards of offense we GIVE them because of the short kickoffs has to stop
I m all for drafting a kicker this year. Tired of rummaging through the scrap pile and always wishing we had a better kicker.
OK so i have made my point about how much I hate Tynes. But I was actually thinking. If it is going to be in replacement of a moss or Brown, I am all for having a kick-off specialist. I have ranted and raved about kick offs beign 50% of their jobs, and we can not afford to lose the field position battle from the opening kick-0off.
One of the hardest things to do is kick in the Meadowlands, and Tynes, is satisfacotry. He can make a good percentage of his FGs. Which, in Giants stadium, says somehting. If we had one guy to go outthere and kick the crap out of kickoffs and then tynes who we all know can make a good percentage of his FG attemps… I am now down with that, if we can not find one guy to do it all, it needs to be done.
With the frequecy of our FG attempts, and the conditions required to kick in, we can not afford to get a below average FG kicker to come in and just boot the shat out of the ball because we need those points as importantly as we need the Field Position. So again, i would prefer to get one guy to be able to do the work, but I am understanding that it may just be worth having Tynes in there for accurate FGs, and one more kicker for blowin the ball out the end zone. We cant keep kicking to Desaun jackson and felix jones, they will start returning them much more frequently if we do…
never heard of the kicker? He sounds pretty good though
Hard to get excited about anyback-up QB — Sotgi, as far as I know, has played about 10 games in relief of Peyton abnd has lost every one
D Anderson would be great if basically free
Garcia would be ok as a short term need
but, if we lose Eli the season is over so who really cares
a kicker is a different story
it would be nice to have just one who can actually kick-off and make FGs, but I could live with two
we ought to raid either the English rugby or Australian football leagues, implement the drop-kick, and freak everyone out for a year
does anyone know the drop-kick rules by the way? Ever since i played rugby in school, I have wondered about employing that skill especially for “on-sides” kicks. In rugby, your kickers and drop-kick balls sky-high allowing gunners to reach the receiver just as the ball is descending. I know it is a different ball with a different weight, but conceptually I would think this could be mastered.
Replacing Tynes is a MUST!
Sorgi is good but I’d much rather have Jeff Garcia. Either will do the job though.
I agree with you on both counts.
Losing David Carr sucks. Everyone seems to say he was a great guy in the locker room and it seemed like if he was forced into action the Giants would still have a punchers chance.
I do not like any of the free agent options out there.
Jeff Garcia has always annoyed me. Brunell seems like he is 100 years old.
I hope Reese waits it out and see who else gets released before signing Sorgi/Garcia/Brunell.
Or goes into the Idaho Wilderness and finds Jake Plummer.
I would prefer to have David Carr as well. It seems like we are plugging up one hole when another one opens unexpectedly.
Lloyd didn’t kick a single fieldgoal or extra point last season so it looks like we’re stuck with Tynes. Also, he went to high school in Minnesota do I’m sure if they offer him a deal he’ll go there.
Sorgi didn’t win very many games because the entire Colts offense is geared toward having the best quarterback in the NFL running it. Take a decent, but not great, quarterback and stick him in there and they will lose a lot more than not. So worrying about his record is irrelevant. He would be an EXCELLENT choice. He knows football, he’s comfortable with Eli (he is friendly with all three brothers, and with Archie and Olivea), he has a good arm, and he’s happy to play a back-up role. He can also help Eli by offering tips that Peyton probably wouldn’t offer unless Eli asked b ecause he doesn’t want to “one-up” his younger brother.
Garcia would probably be fine too, but he’s a two-year solution, at best, and Sorgi could be the solution for the rest of Eli’s career in New York. He is clearly the best option.
This debate about the kickers is rehashed stuff from years ago. All of you who hate Tynes just don’t know what it’s like to have a poor kicker. The guy is pretty good. And yes, we need a kickoff specialist, and we need him badly. That extra roster spot is irrelevant when you consider this: the 53rd man dressed each week will not influence the game even a fraction of the influence available to a kicker who can get you better field position. I’ve been beating this drum for years and am happy to see the team finally awakening to the need for this.
There’s nothing controversial here. Field position is crucial. Accuracy in attempted field goals, especially in the Meadowlands, is crucial. Tynes is pretty accurate and has been an excellent kicker under pressure. To want him out is silly unless someone can very clearly beat him out in pre-season, unlikely because you cannot reproduce big game pressure even with the most stressful artificial circumstances that can be invented. So two roster spots for kickers and Jim Sorgi are just smart moves that no one should object to around here.
Samard, you’re our college player guy. Who cares what you think of Rolle? LOL.
Terrence, if you “hated” the Hurt Locker then you really ought to stick to non-film commentary around here because that was a truly great movie. Disturbing. Sometimes hard to watch. But they gave the award to the right movie. What I think were the two best movies of the year (The Hurt Locker and Precious) both share the distinction of not having done very well at the box office (although both are doing well in DVD rentals). That says a lot more about us than it does about the films.
I would STRONGLY recommend that everyone on Giants 101 see both of these films if you haven’t already. Neither is an easy film to watch, but they both take you out of your ordinary frame of reference and make you think a lot. Contrary to what you probably think, Precious is, in its own way, uplifting. The Hurt Locker just “is”. It’s a world unto itself and an incredibly strong look at what a confusing war does to the various participants without taking any side whatsoever.
Okay, that’s my movie rant for the day.
idk ff55yrs. i jus didnt see how it stood out. precious was better than the locker and i didnt really care for that either. just my taste. ida gave it to idk blind side if anything. but hey its only a movie and its my opinion. i know a lot of people who didnt care for the hurt locker as well.i personally dnt really care for the oscars anyway
HopLax, if you’re out there, I need some honest information about Baltimore and Hopkins. One of my daughters was just admitted to the School of Public Health (universally considered the best school of its kind in the world) and is choosing between there, Columbia (the huge advantage of NYC) and another few schools.
The Hopkins defect is the neighborhood. The School of Public Health is over near the hospital and the neighborhood is depessing. Can she live somewhere around students and faculty and still get to the school easily? How about if she has a car?
I’m also interested in social life at the school. She’s 27 and quite attractive. She has a boyfriend who both my wife and I are hoping will fade away. Is the Hopkins community and the greater Baltimore area at all useful as a social milieu?
I don’t want to turn Giants 101 into a personal advice site, but I wanted to get a straight answer from someone who can be honest given the cloak of anonymity.
ff55,
I lived in Bmore for the last 10 years, and the area that Hopkins is around is filled with College students, but if you stray too far from the campus area, there are some not so attractive blocks. Obviously Hopkins is a top notch school, and all of the people that I know that went there have gone on to be successful within Bmore, and around the country. Baltimore is traditionally known for its violence, but there was a streak of I think 7 DAYS, where there was not one single murder (this just happened to be during that huuuuuuge snow storm a few weeks ago, and they may or may not have found some people buried uunder the snow.)
But on a serious note, I live in NY right now, and would not go back to Bmore for any reason. IMO there is more opprotunity in NYC, and as far as an education standpoint, I am not 100% convinced that Hopkins would be that different from COlumbia, but then again, I am def not a DR.
My aunt went to Hopkins and now manages an entire V.A. clinic, good school from what I hear from her.
Grateful, thanks. I think the “constituency” for the Hopkins grad school is the entire planet. My daughter is interested in having a serious impact on public health both in underserved communities in the US and in underdeveloped countries around the world. Both Hopkins and Columbia (and Harvard and Emory, where she was also admitted but almost certainly won’t attend) are great choices, But from what I hear Hopkins is considered the creme de la creme. That may not overcome her love for New York, but it’s a tough choice for her, and the more she/we find out about Baltimore the better.
Wait, you’re commenting that the neighborhood around JHU is a defect but the other choice is Columbia? Have you been anywhere near NY Presbyterian? Probably not, since you are alive to tell about it. The reason why Columbia’s medical program is so good is because they keep finding fresh cadavers right outside of the parking lot.
Yeah, but she’d live elsewhere in Manhattan and just commute up there for classes. And then she has the cornucopia of NYC at her disposal as opposed to whatever is in Baltimore. I’m not dumping on Baltimore, just trying to find out more about it. This is a very good-looking, very bright, 27-year old who loves New York, but needs to deal with the fact that Johns Hopkins is considered a really, really, top program in what she is interested in doing. As an added attraction, Mayor Mike is the biggest contributor to the school so its graduates get an inside path to both the NYC public health slots and his foundation. I don’t like the guy, but he has clout. Just gathering information.
And thanks Grateful and giantsgiantsfan. Any further info much appreciated.
Yes this is also true… Hopkins is one of the best hospitals/ medical schools in the world, and the opprotunity would absolutely give her great experience. I have family, and friends that go to, work at, and live around Hopkins, soobviously it is an inhabitable area, I just htought id give you my two cents bout bmore, I left bmore for Nyc for the opprotunity to find work. Bmore is a great fun city, but as a 26 yr old, I am much happier in NYC, because it is the greatest city in the world. Hands down.
FF,
I’m a long time reader, but I’ve never posted on the site. My wife is a physician and got her MPH at Bloomberg. It’s far and away the best school of its kind (even when compared to Columbia). My brother used to live in Bmore as well and I’m from NY so I can contrast both. NYC is a far better place to live. That being said, Baltimore can be fun and it definitely grew on me the more time I spent there. It’s a very segregated city with pockets of good surrounded by pockets of bad, so you can’t really walk many places. A car is essential. Hope this helps.
Better than any movie: watching Katherine Bigelow accept her awards last night. I thought she was going to faint on stage.
Anyone know what Sorgi’s wife looks like?
Until I know, I will favor Garcia and his hot ass wife.
Haha! I agree, Gargica’s doin some good work over there!
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.flyergroup.com/portal_assets/images_sizedimage_118111623/lg&imgrefurl=http://www.flyergroup.com/local/local_slideshow_118111946&usg=__zrjMAjLP3DRrUc-xRUMt_cWsPYM=&h=400&w=350&sz=27&hl=en&start=1&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=H-jKmfM-JjsBdM:&tbnh=124&tbnw=109&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dlana%2Bsorgi%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DX%26rlz%3D1C1GGGE_enUS357US357%26tbs%3Disch:1
Does anyone else find it as amazing as I do that there are so few good kickers in the NFL? Like you would think that, given all of the division one programs, NFL GMs would be able to find 32 guys who would be able to make a 40 yarder a high percentage of the time and fans would feel confident in. How many teams have that guy? Seriously? Less than ten I would say. I think if you want your kid to grow up and have a shot at going to a big time college program and the NFL, he should be kicking field goals.
ROC, or playing soccer.
The old saying used to be that if you wanted your kid to make it to the NFL and he wasn’t a great athlete, make him a center/long-snapper; if you wanted MLB make him a catcher; and if you wanted the NBA make him a point guard. That seems no longer true for point guards because they have to be incredible athletes. As for catchers, there are now a lot of excellent ones and the “defensive specialist” catchers (ie. kids who couldn’t hit a curveball) are beginning to fade out a bit except as backups who don’t get paid big money. The center/long-snapper route may still be useful for the NFL, but as ROC says, kicking may be the ticket. Fewer concussions too.
Just curious, isn’t Sam swank a kickoff specialist and a punter as well?! We still don’t have a punter and I’m curious who we bring in in the later stages of free agency
Just looked at that pennant. I believe it loses value for having Dave Brown’s signature on it.
Wouldnt say Swank was a kickoff specialist, but he was a great kicker in college. Pretty sure he had hip surgery and is why he went undrafted. He looked off when coming back from it. And hip surgery is usually the kiss of death for kickers..
And agreed about “The hurt locker”.. Amazing movie
+1. Loved that movie
My wife loved it.. I couldn’t get into at all. The only movie this year to have a serious impact on me (to the point of tears) was “Up”.
how can up really be a kids movie…i mean that was jus sad! i had to take a step back when the then old man and his wife was walkin up the hill they always walked up and then she couldnt make it…nxt scene she was in the hosp… then she died….i was like wtf.lol
Just so you guys know, DJ Ware will be a guest of Giants 101 in a few days. He’s agreed to do an interview with us and I spoke to his people this morning, so keep an eye out for that.
Still working on Terrell Thomas (who agreed) and Reby Sky (who also agreed), but haven’t heard back from either yet.
Nice job securing that interview Dan. I will check it out for sure!
I read his interview with BBI, Im expecting big things out of him next year.
TT the G101 hall of famer, nice.. Ask him what he thinks of that guy here who said he was going to be just as good as Charles Woodson next year lol…
Tynes is not a great kicker. I certainly won’t defend him there. He is erratic and the ones that he makes rarely look pretty. He always makes you sweat until it hits the net. However, there is certainly a case to be made that he is better than many of the other options that are available. He doesn’t look so bad then.
The reason the kicker debate is getting rehashed on my part is that the issue of field postion and lack of touchbacks persists. There really aren’t a ton of decent kickers around and I don’t think that this issue is exclusive to the Giants.
The non-tendered Darcy Johnson will be visiting St. Louis and Balt.
My guess is he signs with the Rams because of Spags.
Dan, keep at it.
I suspect Thomas will now be pretty excited about the look of the secondary. That should be quite a nickel package. I hope he has been told by Fewell that the corners will be allowed to play press coverage.
And if you get DJ Ware I am particularly interested in hearing about his health and that of all the other backs, most particularly Brown’s (I still cannot believe the indications that Brown will be back and at close to full strength…has there been a miraculous breakthrough in the reconstruction of Achilles tendons?) and Bradshaw’s.
I like the combo of Boss and The Bear (who is a SERIOUS blocker) and hope the decision to jettison Darcy Johnson was an indication that the crusty coaching staff has finally figured out that when you have an H-back like Beckum you don’t really need a second tight end who is primarily a pass-catcher and a relatively weak blocker. Duh.
I think the team will look to get an all-around tight end in one of the later draft rounds as the #3 guy on the depth chart and a good alternative to Boss should he be injured. That sounds about right to me.
Did TT downright earn the starting CB role for this season??? Hamstring looked pretty good when he was healthy and I m not going to discount that just bc he pulled said hamstring 69 times last year. Will we get the Ross of 08 or the oft injured 09 version. Will he be playing the nickel role only or is he gonna get his shot at starting???? We seriously just made our secondary a strength!!!
If Gresham falls to our second rounnd pick I wouldnt mind taking him there. He wouldnt see the field for 2 years but it be nice to have him.
Last movie comment. While Avatar was an “experience”, will prove revolutionary in its effect on actor’s compensation (they won’t be happy), and is the biggest box-office smash of all time, I think the three best movies for discerning filmgoers in 2009 were The Hurt Locker, Precious and A Serious Man. If you don’t like the Coen brothers you might not like A Serious Man, but I thought it was terrific.
You could have also seen Daniel Day Lewis in one of the only badly-played roles he’s had if you go to Nine (how he threw this stinker into the world after what he did in There Will Be Blood is incomprehensible to me…I think he’s the best actor of his generation but thought he was really terrible in this Fellini-esque role). You can see George Clooney, Vera Famigia and what’s-her-name doing great acting in Up In The Air. You could see Jeff Bridges in a personal triumph in a relatively cliched film. You could feel sorry for aliens in District 9 while thinking it was a pretty crappy metaphor for apartheid. Or you could have seen Meryl Streep doing her usual great work in a sappy chick flick in which the best part of it IMHO was the great house in the outskirts of Santa Barbara.
Anyway, point being, it was a pretty decent year for movies despite all the gnashing of teeth about the decline of Hollywood.
Okay, back to the Giants…..
Here here!
I was glad to see that the doors were closed on the faces of Cameron and his people. Avatar was a fun movie, but not much more. Meanwhile, the movies you mentioned, and my personal favorite, 500 Days of Summer, which was inexplicably shut out of the awards’ show, were all fantastic displays of filmmaking. It did my heart well, as a movie buff, to see that Hollywood hadn’t whored itself out too greatly last night.
I thought Inglorious Basterds was over rated. Tarantino uses the same chapter theme from Kill Bill and the story was kind of weak with gratuitous violence thrown in to make it a “tarantino” film. Worth watching, but not a best picture nominee.
Not worth the “Best Picture” nod. But as far as performances by a male this year, Christoph Waltz was this year’s Heath Ledger. His depiction of Col. Landa was simply brilliant. He was able to make a blood-thirsty Nazi colonel into a complex, alarmingly-charming character. That initial scene where he is interrogating/questioning the French milk farmer was about as enjoyable a scene, top to bottom, as I saw this year, surpassed only by the scene in the basement-bar later on in the movie.
I am not a Tarantino fan, by any means. In fact, I’ve seen all of his movies and felt that they weren’t very good at all. Still, “Inglorious Basterds” was a very good film, with some very surprising performances.
I saw all three films that you mention and none had the kind of depth and humanity that the true best picture of the year did: Pixar’s Up.
Well, the craziness of the past week is over. First my mother was in town; next I had to prepare and present a huge presentation at work for my district and regional managers about my department’s productivity and future projects; then I made an unplanned trip down to spend some time with my future in-laws; and finally I returned to Orlando and held a big dinner at my house (BBQ ribs, steak, burgers, potato salad, macaroni salad, spinach dip, etc.). So today I’m relaxing and gorging myself on Giants 101.
1) Sorgi or Garcia would be welcome additions. Sorgi is younger, but Garcia is a gamer. That dude can flat out play football. He’s beaten us in the playoffs twice, and has been a successful starting quarterback for years. Eli is a tough dude, so the prospect of him going down with an injury is hard to fathom. But in the worst of worst case scenarios, I’d be comfortable with Garcia. He’s not Eli Manning, but he can still throw the ball, still move around in the pocket, and could probably win us a few games.
2) Thank GOD. Thank God that they’re realizing that we need to just kick that friggin’ ball through the up-rights. How many points have been scored by offenses who have started at our 32 or 35 over the years?
3) FF55, in regards to the jettisoning of Darcy and the hope that they’ll be using Beckum properly–from your lips to God’s ears.
Doc, I think the answer to your question is “No”. There should be a fierce competition in camp between Ross and Thomas for the job in the base package. But you know what? If Fewell decides he wants to go away from press coverage they may both beat out Webster.
Agreed about the secondary. With the addition of Rolle (and, I still assume, one draft pick at either of the positions) it went from a huge weakness to a likely strength. I even have hopes for Shareff Rashad and Vince Anderson. Rashad, in particular, looked very good last summer before having to go to the Practice Team.
I’m cautiously optimistic about our secondary. We appear to have some good starters and second-level guys, but we felt the same way last year about our defensive line. We need to continue developing the talent that we have and might want to bring in another CB and/or safety. Can’t have enough of these guys.
FF55 – I think Precious is one of the most depressing movies EVER. Having said that, it’s something that needed to be told. That story is unreal. Hurt Locker is a seriously good movie, and deserved to win. I just got annoyed with everyone jockin’ Cameron up there, although, Ben Stiller killed it.
On to football – I want Sorgi. Why bring in a couple of fossils to back up Eli? Sorgi has had the benefit to learn behind Eli’s big brother, the best QB in football all of his career…and if he has a relationship with the whole family, it just makes more sense to me. He’s younger, and I just believe will be a completely better fit. Gonna miss Carr, but I think Sorgi would do just fine.
Would love a kick off specialist, similar to how the Cowgirls used Buehler last season.
I still think with the D-heavy draft we should snag both a S and a CB in this draft. DT, MLB, OL, S, CB and maybe a RB and/or WR as well. There is a lot of talent in this draft. You can truly get good talent later on instead of wasting our late picks like last draft.
Agreed.
I’d like to see us bring a corner in as well, just in case Johnson was a 1 yr wonder. Someone like Javier arenas or Walter thurmond who can return kicks as well.
I’ve always liked Sorgi but I personally think Jeff Garcia is one of the most underrated QBs of my generation and honestly if I was AZ I’d be trying to bring him in. I’m interested to hear how Sorgi looked today. Word is Garcia will be in tomorrow. But to be honest, we have the old curmudgeon TC, and if its up to him which I hope its not so its either Sorgi or my choice Garcia it will end up being Brunell because TC loves bringing in guys he has a past with. I wanted Brunell to come in here like 2 years ago and he wouldn’t be horrible but he’s old and a lefty. Clearly we’d be better with Sorgi or Garcia but if TC has a say you know he’ll want the old man.
I love our top 3 WRs (Nicks, SS, Manningham). I know Hixon is higher than Barden on the depth chart but to me he should stay as just a returner where he can be elite instead of an average at best WR. That being said, I think JR would be really wise if he would bring in another talented WR to give us a solid 5 WRs who can sub in and out and stay fresh. The rookie could be a STer or be in a Barden roll for his first season and not have to be an impact WR with the crew we have but there are some talented guys out there who could develop into special players. I believe in covering yourself. One bad injury or a regression by Manningham or Nicks going into a softmore slump or Barden not developing could put us back into the WR market when there is less talent or we have to pay for it. I’d like to add one day 2 who could take Moss’ and or Hagan’s roster spot(s).
Hixon is a good returner, but let’s not be too loose with the phrase “elite.” Desean Jackson, Darren Sproles, Josh Cribbs….those guys are ELITE. Hixon is good but not great.
I think he’s a top 5. To me thats elite. Jackson, Cribbs, Hester (but not now that he’s a starting WR), Sproles (but not now that he’s a starting RB) but thats about it around the league. 32 teams….if you’re a top 5 I call you elite. I truly believe that. He looks special as a returner. I think he looks goofy as a WR but as a returner I like Hixon very much.
I dunno enough about the kick returners on other teams. But I think Hixon’s return skills, and, thus, his roster spot, could be greatly upgraded by taking Arenas.
This is funny shit here:
“I loved defeating the Redskins,” said [Emmitt] Smith. “I loved it, I loved it, I loved it with a passion. And I loved it more when Daniel Snyder got the team, for a number of reasons. I did. Because here is a guy who thought he could build a football team just because he has the money to buy players. There’s more to it than that.
“And he’s not a compassionate person, not a compassionate person at all from what I understand. And that makes me just want to pummel somebody. You know, you hate to see pride, wearing itself on his forehead and his chest. And to me, arrogance sticks out like a sore thumb when you talk about him. And the lack of compassion for others is a problem. Because it’s not that hard to be compassionate; you just choose to.”
http://espn.go.com/blog/nfceast/post/_/id/11769/why-did-emmitt-knee-cap-dan-snyder
Gotta wonder whether Emmitt was confused about the question. I mean, he seems to be describing Jerruh Jones here.
Funny because I agree with ES. I think he said that because of how Snyder promises guys big money and end up cutting them before they really get paid. Plus he sued his season ticket holders. I dont know either guy personally but to me Emmitt’s not that far off on DS.
Well, much to my regret, I DO know Dan Snyder, although not at all well. IMHO, he is a punk who happened to get extremely lucky that someone vastly overpaid for his company. He’s an arrogant guy who treats most of the people around him like peons. He breaks his word constantly (and I know a contract with him is only as good as your lawyer is willing to make it through expensive litigation if Snyder decides he doesn’t like the terms in retrospect). Emmett has him dead to rights. Emmett may not speak the English language all that well, but he apparently has impeccable insight into people. Snyder is the kind of guy who proves that there’s absolutely no correlation between monetary wealth and true worth. And I’m being polite in this description.
Anyone else catch that nasty old piece of *%$ director of “Music by Prudence” shove aside the director of the film during last night’s Oscars? Pretty much the end of that witches career.
sorry, she was the “producer” of the film.
Yeah, that was the “Kanye Moment” as my girlfriend said last night.
Apparently, she wasn’t even that involved with the movie as she was fired a year ago (but yet, having done nothing, she still qualified for the award).
I apologize upfront for this being a non-football post. However, I am indebted to FF55 for the insights I have gleaned from him over the past few years (both football and life in general). This post is an attempt to return the favor.
FF55 – The School of Public Health (SPH) is top notch and has benefited immensely by the philanthropy of Bloomberg in the last 10 years. Their facilities are relatively new and state of the art. Expanding and enhancing the sphere of influence of SPH both here and abroad is the university’s goal and they have committed significant resources to bring this about. SPH’s proximity and access to Hopkins Med School, the hospital and their various research centers is unparalleled.
In terms of safety, statistics don’t lie, Baltimore is one of the most violent cities in America along with Philly, Detroit, LA etc. Like the main campus at Homewood, the SPH/Med School/Hospital are surrounded by blighted crime infested neighborhoods. However, Hopkins does secure these areas by an army of “Hop Cops” (uniformed, overweight walkie-talkie carrying 50 year olds) and surveillance cameras. They actually do a very good job, all humor aside. In the SPH environs, their is a Hop Cop on every corner 24/7. All parking lots and garages are patrolled. The University has bought up property in many of the surrounding neighborhoods for expansion and to secure their campuses. The safety history and prognosis is good. The university’s reputation and ability to attract doctors, researchers, professors and students depends on it.
Socially, Hopkins is what you make of it. In general, I would say students are there strictly for the academics. Having a social life (beyond your roommates) is merely a second thought. Not a whole lot of “school spirit”, except for Blue Jay’s lacrosse, lol. Very different atmosphere from the Ivy League or the likes of Amherst, Williams, etc. A more adequate comparison is Swarthmore, if you know what I mean. If you want a social life you have to make it happen yourself, but it’s out there for the taking. Another FYI, Baltimore is a very provincial town, a place where you need to be introduced to be accepted. This may not apply to your daughter because I suspect that her fellow SPH classmates will form social and support groups in their grad program.
As to where to live that’s safe: Canton, Fells Point, Federal Hill, Greek Town (for urban living choices) and Roland Park, Homeland, Guilford, Ruxton, Charles Village, Towson (for suburban living choices).
I am hearing Fred Robbins is going to sign with the Rams as well. I would not be surprised if Dockery joins him.
$12 mil over three years for Fab Freddy in St. Louis.
Good for him….
Happy Trails Freddie… thanks for the memories.
So I’d say it’s time to officially declare an end to Free Agency 2010. We made our one big splash… filled a need position. And that’s more than enough to claim a success. Oh sure… we could do a little bottom feeding… Reese is an accomplished NFL carp. But I suspect it’s ‘on to the draft’ as far as our front office is concerned.
I still believe MLB to be our primary need. But the departure of Robbins lends weight to norm’s argument about DT. Order aside they’re 1 & 2.
Hopefully we can all agree that OL depth, RB depth, KO and PR round out the 2nd tier needs.
On the luxury list I’d put pass rushing DE and 3rd down scat back.
The wildcard… what happens if a ‘too good to pass up’ talent falls to pick #15? Most likely that would be an OT or a RB. What does Reese do then?
Decisions… decisions.
HopLax, very, very, much appreciated.
As far as socially, I know all about the T-shirts “Hopkins, Where Fun Goes to Die”, but she won’t be into the undergrad types of social life. This is a very pretty, highly intelligent 27-year old who tends to stand out in a crowd (fortunately for her she got more of her mother than her father in the looks department). Do you know whether there is much of a social outlet for young women in Baltimore itself? Are there places that doctors, bankers, young patrons of the arts, etc. interact? Or is it a pretty closed society except for the older students and doctors around the Medical campus?
Bloomberg’s investment and the school’s efforts have clearly made it the best school in the country, but we’re concerned that she might be miserable for two years while wishing she had just gone to Columbia or Harvard instead. I’m glad it’s her choice and not mine. Giants football is much easier than “real life”. LOL. See, I can’t promise you these tough decisions get easier with time, experience, and wisdom. Uncertainty reigns as long as you’re breathing.
Great news for Freddie. He deserves it. Terrific player and teammate. And the Rams need some guys like him.
Krow, I’m not so sure about the draft priorities. If you look at my recent post (I don’t recall what day it was) you will see that I don’t think a defensive end is an afterthought and could prove the best match between talent, need and availability at #15. So could a game-breaker in the backfield. So could O-lineman, linebacker or DT, but I would guess that the DT position is going to be addressed after the first round because once you get past Suh and McCoy I don’t think you have “unearthly” talent available, just very good players who could prove to be Pro Bowlers but are more likely to just be excellent players who can seriously contribute (ie. Robbins, Cofield and Alford types).
There will be “unearthly” talents available at #15 at other positions. For my money, Weatherspoon, Iupati, Best, Graham and a few others may fit that category. I just have a feeling Reese/Ross will grab one of them. But I certainly wouldn’t be unhappy with Price or Odrick. I just don’t think that would be the absolutely best pick when they could get a very fine DT in the next round when the “unearthly” talents are probably gone.
Jim Sorgi has been sent for his physical. Looks like he’ll be signed.
Yaaaaay for Sorgi. I actually think, given this year’s free agent crop, Sorgi is one of the best players available.
And he’s not named Mark Brunell
I really hope the Sorgi deal happens. Thanks for the update Dan!
Although remember, Sorgi is coming off a shoulder injury. So the physical might not be a mere formality….
but he has had 0 success as a astarter… that does not make me feel comfortable… I would take garcia over sorgi ina second. Delhomme??? do we think hell get a starting spot somewhere?
Garcia may be marginally better on the field, but I don’t really think he’s what you go for in a backup. Sorgi has the experience and secondary skills required to be a helpful member of the offense.
Garcia has a bigger mouth than you need for a guy who’s merely asked to hold a clipboard, and help Eli study tape.
And Jake Delhomme has neither the physical ability or frame of mind to play QB in the NFL. Starter, back up or third stringer…can’t cut it.
Wow, I think I disagree with most of this. a back-up NEEDS to be able to step in and win a game at any point of a season or game. Garcia, may have a bigger “mouth” but he also has a bigger success rate. I don’t really care who the back-up QB is, i would just like to see someone with a little more success at that spoition. Whoever is coming in to be our back-up, knows they have no shot at starting unless eli goes down so its not like Garcia would be upset that he wasnt given the starting job…
Good point on Delhomme, but I would take his on the field expereince over Sorgi’s “secondary skills required to be a helpful member of the offense” because of his experience playing QB in the NFL. Sorgi has played in scrub games, and not done well, delhomme has played in “real live” games, and had success. I dont think he is done IMO hed be a perfect back-up.
I understand it is a back-up, so there is no need to go all out for hium…. but if eli did go down, I would not feel very confident that we could win a game with Sorgi. again, its just nit-picking, but if i had my way, i would bring in a QB with some sort of success starting, even if that is Garcia, Anderson, or Delhomme expereince is more important that projection IMO
Excellent news. Sorgi is so much the best option that, like I said earlier, I don’t even consider it debatable. The Giants are lucky to get him.
I’m really liking the front office’s approach so far this off-season. They addressed the most crying need by getting a good player and they got him with a contract that isn’t bad at all. They’ve recognized the tremendous need for better field position on kickoffs (one I’ve been expecting them to recognize for years). And they seem about to sign what I think is the perfect solution for back-up quarterback, a terrific player who won’t be looking for a starter’s job in a few years. I’m really sorry to see Carr leave, but he was never going to be more than a short-term solution since he is too talented not to get a shot at starting in the NFL.
Maybe these guys just had a bad year in 2009 along with the rest of the team.
Oddly enough… I think we’re saying pretty much the same thing.
I have a really special piece in the works for all you guys. It’s a change-of-pace around here. Possibly a new themed article I may continue to do.
It’ll probably appeal much more to our older readers than some of the younger ones. I’m really anxious to get some opinions on it.
Look for it this week.
Ah, I thought he had already passed the physical. So that adds an element of uncertainty. Anyone know what it would have cost the Colts to keep him? I assumed it was a cost issue, not their knowledge that his shoulder would not recover. But as long as he is on the road to recovery, even if not already there, I want this guy like a bear wants honey.
Forget Garcia. Good, but only for a year or two. Forget Brunell. Done. Forget Delhomme. As soon as he gets a sniff of interest in competing for a starting job he’ll be gone. Nope, Sorgi’s the one.
Who cares if Sorgi can play. Hes not going to. Name me the last time a Manning missed a game of football. Not likely to happen. Hes a smart guy whos not a jerk, pretty much exactly what we need holding the board. Allthough if it was up to me, we would bring back the “Hefty Lefty”..
Sorgi’s physical is over and he’s back meeting with the Giants.
Krow, so here’s the situation at #15. Still on the board are Haden (I think his Combine performance makes it quite possible teams will stupidly pass on him, which they shouldn’t), Weatherspoon, Iupati, Derrick Williams, Best (maybe even Spiller, but I doubt it), Graham, Price and Odrick. Obviously Spikes is still around. It’s possible that McClain is there. Mays almost certainly is still available.
Who do you pick?
I mean Derrick Morgan, not Williams.
And I meant Trent Williams. Somehow I merged the two. Too bad we can’t do that in real life.
ff55, I’m not Krow and I know CB isn’t a real need, but it would be tough for me to pass up a potential shutdown corner like Haden, after seeing what Revis was able to do for the Jets D this season. Webster, TT, Haden, and Ross would make for a ridiculous group of corners, and Ross could even be used as a safety if KP isn’t 100%. Out of that list, Haden would almost certainly be BPA. Of the guys you mentioned, my list might be:
Haden
McClain (a very close second)
Weatherspoon (I realize the board’s higher on him, but McClain seems like safer bet to be a good MIKE)
Price
Iupati
Morgan
Best
Odrick
Mays
Id probably take McClain. But I would give Haden some serious consideration.
No contract for Sorgi. At least not today.
I think I would go mcclain depending on his pro day or weatherspoon taking haden would be thought about long and hard. But lb is more of a need. If we took Haden how do u cover the mike spot? Who in the 2nd ?
Mike spot might not be the biggest area of need, to the coaching staff. They might feel that Goff will be more than adequate after shoring up the DT position, in addition to putting a better safety group behind him.
If I go Haden at 15, I would go Spikes for MIKE in the 2nd (assuming he’s still available).
That’s quite an assumption.
FF55,
I’d have a hard time walking away from one among Price, McClain and Weatherspoon. I’ve listened to many arguments for Iupati, Best and Odrick over the past few months, and all of them have made tremendous sense. But, for my money, at this stage, I still feel that DT and LB are the two areas which are in need of the most attention going into next season. Had we made an upgrade at either of them in free agency or via a trade, I might feel differently and would be more apt to feel comfortable with Reese going with a straight BPA approach at #15. And with, the the addition of Rolle, we’re able to remove safety as a “must have” position in the first 2 or 3 rounds of the draft. Still, as it stands, we need to have one of those 3 players, even if others (particularly Iupati and Best) would make a significant impact for other areas of our team.
I love Iupati. I trust reese though and would be happy with any number of players at # 15
No serious consideration of Derrick Morgan or Trent Williams? I’d have them right up there with Haden, McClain, Weatherspoon and Iupati.
Probably for the same reason I would want to pass up on the rest of those studs. Their additions would come at the price of passing up players that could plug the obvious, pressing holes on our defense.
But, if we go into the draft minus a certain defensive end might be a worthy selection, Morgan. But Williams? What would we then do with Beatty?
I’m surprised nobody thinks Pat Angerer wouldn’t be a solid pick to take over as MIKE. He’s got great size, solid speed, and a productive college career. He is a true middle linebacker and I personally think he’d be a terrific fit. He may not be the quickest guy, but he has a nose for the ball. He’s ALWAYS around the ball. He’s good wrap up tackler and just a solid football player. I like McClain, but I think we may be able to get more value by using our 1st rounder on someone else and then possibly using our 2nd or 3rd rounder on a guy like Angerer.
Ironically I went to Rotoworld and sure enough
http://www.rotoworld.com/content/features/column.aspx?sport=NFL&columnid=60&articleid=34868&pg=2
15. New York Giants – Florida CB Joe Haden
Haden’s 4.6 forty will cost him a spot in the draft’s top ten, but he isn’t likely to get past GM Jerry Reese’s Giants. A firm believer in the best-player-available strategy, Reese proved last year that he puts little stock in pre-draft hiccups. North Carolina WR Hakeem Nicks ran just 4.54 in the forty, scored a pitiful 11 on the Wonderlic, and gained a scary 14 pounds during the one-month period between the Combine and Tar Heels’ Pro Day. Reese made Nicks the No. 29 overall pick. Haden could push for LCB Aaron Ross’ starting job in year one, and at worst upgrade the Giants’ woeful pass defense as a nickel back, replacing non-tendered restricted free agent Kevin Dockery.
But I take it with a grain of salt because this person obviously doesn’t know jack about the giants. Terrell Thomas is the starter not Ross. Ross is the nickel. So as talented as Haden is, are we really gonna spend a first rounder on a guy who will compete for the nickel spot?
He’d be real good for us. No doubt about that. But, again, it would be a luxury pick, not one that represents an improvement of our existing problems.
I agree. Im not doubting that he would be good, Im 100% with you.
Also, this guy says that Reese is a big believer in going BPA and cited Nicks as an example. Really? (not saying he wasn’t BPA) pretty sure wr was a position of need as well. Its not like he ignored that aspect of it
Yeah. Someone on Bleacher Report had an article that said that the Giants always go BPA, regardless of need. I pointed out that the last 3 1st rounders have all been at positions of pretty serious need. No response yet.
You gotta wonder where people get their info from.
Kujo- I no longer even comment or even look at bleacher report for that matter. They pump traffic through their site using soft core porn and create dummy accounts to create traffic.
Theres pictures of half naked chicks on all my work. I dont care. But what if I put that I wrote for BR and had work featured on ESPN and CBS Sports.com and they look at it and see that?
Is my prospective employer going to be okay with that? Especially considering that there are a lot of younger people who write for that site.
Not to mention BR straight up lied to me about the prospect of getting a job last year.
Just ask Dan.
I want nothing to do with that site and neither should anyone else.
Sorry… Had to get that out there once I saw Bleacher Report
LOL.
Good to know. I just like to argue.
Breakdown of Rolle’s contract:
Base salaries:
2010: $4.750 million (fully guaranteed)
2011: $5.250m (fully guaranteed)
2012: $6.750m
2013: $7m
2014: $7m
Signing bonus: $5 million
Workout bonuses: $250k per year
Add it all up and you get the $37 million with $15 million guaranteed that’s been reported. (In addition, Rolle has Pro Bowl incentives of $100k per year. Those incentives aren’t included when talking about the standard value of a contract. But they’re certainly there to be earned.)
Man, with all those names FF55 listed as who COULD be available at 15…I’m glad I’m not Reese. Personally, even with a slightly weaker combine than expected, I still believe Haden is gone. After that though, it would be REALLY tough, for me at least, to make the decision. I really like Iupati A LOT! I think the guy’s going to be an absolute mauler. And even though it’s not a “sexy pick” at 15, we could probably get a real anchor, be it LT/RT for the OL. Personally, I believe at some point we’re going to see Beatty at LT and Diehl at RT (maybe next season).
I also am really big on Brandon Graham out of Michigan. The guy blew up the Senior Bowl…and would be an excellent addition to the DL. If there was a way to guarantee Spikes in the 2nd, I’d take the best OL/DL available, take Spikes in the 2nd, and OL/DL in the 3rd.
FF55 – Forgot to answer a few of your questions. Relative to NYC, there is no traffic in Bmore. A major traffic jam is a 30 minute event, lol. If your daughter lives in the city (Canton, Federal Hill, Fells Point, etc) she is looking at a 10 minute commute to get to SPH, which is great. Furthermore, Hopkins has a tremendous shuttle system, that will take her everywhere (the various campuses, research centers, downtown, malls, shopping, etc). Most students and employees use it. A car is nice to have but not needed. In Bmore housing is cheap (relative to NYC, DC, Chicago, etc) but parking is a b.i.t.c.h.
BTW, the city neighborhoods I referenced above are mostly professional yuppie enclaves with good bars, restaurants and nightlife. As an independent, out going grad student, your daughter probably with have a blast. There are a lot of young well educated professionals in bmore given the roughly 10 colleges/universities, 3 regional investment banks, national law firms, hospitals etc. It’s a very livable and manageable city. It is a city of neighborhoods … it feels more like a “town” with a lot of ethnic neighborhoods, rather than a “city”, which I think is a positive. I hope you are able to discern the subtlety I am attempting to describe, it’s hard to put into words.
Lastly, if she loves lacrosse like her father, there isn’t a better place to be. To be honest I went to Hop to play lacrosse. I had a blast, got a rigorous education, made what I suspect will be lifelong friendships and learned a lot of life’s lessons on the lacrosse field (sportsmanship, work ethic, attention to detail, overcoming adversity, leadership, loyalty, etc). It didn’t hurt that we won 2 national championships, lol. But I will say that Baltimore was a wonderful backdrop for my 4 years there.
Oh, I have a call into a classmate that’s working in a Hop Med School TB research lab that is taking classes at SPH. I will let you know what he thinks when I hear back from him.
Pat Angerer does not have perfect size. And Trent Williams is probably the best RT in the draft (Notice I said RT) so that wouldnt really impact Beatty..
I’d defer to your judgment about Williams. I have read that he’s an LT, but if you feel he’s projected at RT, I’ll take your word. I don’t know much about this guy.
Kujo- I no longer even comment or even look at bleacher report for that matter. They pump traffic through their site using soft core porn and create dummy accounts to create traffic.
Theres pictures of half naked chicks on all my work. I dont care. But what if I put that I wrote for BR and had work featured on ESPN and CBS Sports.com and they look at it and see that?
Is my prospective employer going to be okay with that? Especially considering that there are a lot of younger people who write for that site.
Not to mention BR straight up lied to me about the prospect of getting a job last year.
Just ask Dan.
I want nothing to do with that site and neither should anyone else.
Sorry… Had to get that out there once I saw Bleacher Report
Reply
LOL. Hadn’t realized the soft-core porn and I have no knowledge of the politics of that community. I like Santucci’s columns but the rest are usually no better than the rest of the ignorant pieces I read on the internet, bereft of any real knowledge of the Giants and riddled with assumptions and reliance on “common knowledge.”
Ever see Jeff Garcia’s wife?! He’s an overchiever, I’ll say that.
FF55… in that scenario I’m taking Spoon.
HopLax, again, thank you so much. That is really useful info. And to answer your question, yes, she loves lacrosse. She was All-State in New York in high school and was recruited to play at college (albeit that sissy women’s game) but quit after her sophomore year so she could travel to Vietnam for half a year. Her coach wanted to kill her because she planned on having her play a key role as the top midfielder in her junior year, but foreign adventures called.
Baltimore as you describe it sounds pretty interesting.
Monday, March 08, 2010
No Sorgi
According to someone in the know, it looks like the Giants will not sign Jim Sorgi as their backup QB. However the two sides may revisit the matter at a later date. Next?
TheBlueScreen Sorgi’s agent says noted orthpedists Dr. Andrews and Dr. Yocum both say his shoulder is fine. The Giants’ docs, however, didn’t agree. #nyg
Since it’s from Vacchiano’s twitter, I’d take it with a grain of salt after his reporting with the Antrel Rolle situation.
In response to 55’s post, if all those guys are on the board, I’d probably go with McClain because he’d be BPA at a position of need. I’m among those clamoring for a DT because I think a MLB is useless without a strong presence at DT. Having said that, the DT position is deep in this draft and since we can now probably be ok with not drafting a safety in the 2nd, where the safety talent justifies the draft selection, we can get a quality DT there. Lamarr Houston might be available there, although maybe not after his combine performance, Arthur Jones certainly should be available, and also Alualu, among others. I just feel like McClain’s talent at a position of need is just too good to pass up at that spot since he’s a top 10 talent in this draft IMO.
I wouldn’t go with Odrick, as I feel he fits better as a 5-technique in a 3-4. I see Trent Williams as more of a RT, which I don’t think is a position that should be addressed that high in the draft. I think McClain is better than Weatherspoon, although maybe not in a cover-2, but for now, I’d take McClain over ’spoon. And for the rest, I’d just rather fill a need, rather than draft straight up BPA, especially since for now, Tommy C is our HC, and no rookie is going to unseat a veteran who’s playing pretty well.
Having said all that, I would not mind drafting any of those players at 15, except for maybe Mays, now that we have Rolle, Trent Williams, because I see him as a RT, and Odrick because I don’t see him as a great DT in a 4-3.
Kujo, hard to say about predicts, but he had ish on Lockdown as an RT. While he struggled this year at LT. Now he looked good at the combine in drills, but he didnt really impress during the season. Im not saying he cant play LT though, hes just so much better at RT. Which is why it wouldnt affect Beatty that much, because he doesnt really have the RT skillset.
I would love the pick if I felt more comfortable with our defensive tackle situation. Also, with the rapid decline in quality at MLB once the top 3 (Spoon, McClain and Spikes) are off the board, you gotta wonder whether we go there too.
In an increasingly pass-oriented league I have to say that if I were the GM and could get Haden, Morgan and Graham (in that order) that’s probably the way I would go.
I’d go into the season comfortable with Goff and having drafted a linebacker after the first round for depth and competition. I would plan on drafting a DT in Round 2 or 3, with Alualu or Houston probably being my target.
As tempting as McClain and Weatherspoon are, I just am not as unhappy with our young linebackers as others apparently are around here. I HATED our linebackers (Clark, Pierce and Blackburn/Boley) last season, but thankfully that’s an old nightmare. I think the young guys are quite promising despite the unanimous feelings of the pundits. I disagreed with those bums last year about our wide receivers. Don’t trust conventional wisdom more than your own eyes.
But couldn’t it be argued that guys like McClain and Spoon, along with Price, Odrick and Alualu, represent significant upgrades to a defense that hemorrhaged pass yardage right up the middle last year? Sure, the Saints burned our safeties, but we were routines gouged by tight ends and runningbacks, as well as slot receivers, in the heart of our defense. You can draw a straight line–figuratively and literally– right up the middle of our defense and attribute a large portion of our woes to the weakness encompassed within that line. Failure to collapse the pocket led to quarterbacks like McNabb, Romo and Brees stepping up in the pocket and throwing passes to players who had been isolated by Pierce, Blackburn, etc. If you collapse the pocket, they won’t make those throws. And if they do, they won’t be played, man up, on the putridity that infected our linebacking corps last year.
I don’t disagree with you that our linebackers will be better this year than last. But the big yardage was gained by the short to intermediate throws up the middle last year. Haden would lock down his man, but that man wouldn’t be Celek or Witten or Jones or Barber or Choice or Bush, all of which have had varying levels of success against us by taking the short passes that have been the bane of our defense.
Let me hasten to add that I would be thrilled to get McClain or Weatherspoon. I just think that great pass defense (either a shutdown CB or a pass rush) is more valuable.
As for too many cornerbacks, I wouldn’t think so. Having Haden compete immediately for a spot against the three incumbents would at the very least improve their games and also allow Ross to be considered additional depth at safety. He’d play CB but would be available just in case. That would pretty much remove the need to draft ANY safety, freeing up the rounds after the first to go after a DT and a linebacker along with O-linemen.
I’m a disciple of Accorsi’s view about pass rushers. But we’ve got 3 good ones already. We need a DT presence, someone who pushes that center and guard backwards and prevents the offensive linemen from downblocking to the linebackers, whoever they are.
With the up and down play of DBs and knowing Ross is nearing the end of his deal, if a talent like Haden dropped to us I think you have to take him. At #15 a top 10 projected talent has a good chance of falling to us. If it happens, we almost have to take them. Collect top talent. The better players will rise to the top on your depth chart. That being said, OL, DT and MLB would be the most preferred of positions you’d hope the BPA falls into.
Let’s not forget that Haden would also prevent Ross’ annual hammy tweak from being a real problem. And looking down the line it makes Ross expendable. Sure, Ross is a “nice player” but he’s not a great one. It kinda sucks to get rid of a young guy that helped us win a SB but the NFL is a business and teams must be run like one.
Yeah I’m a big Ross fan and love his skill set but we also have to remember that he was an old rookie and that unless a player can stay on the field he isn’t worth much to a team no matter how good their skills are. And to me it doesn’t matter. Even if we had two starters with the positions locked down a smart franchise takes the top talent available and develops them so they can either move their starters in trades or let them leave via free agency as to save money and stay young and fresh. We all tend to want the same guys around forever but just about every 4 years in the NFL most of the positions on a team change the faces in them. That means that almost as soon as you get a starter you have to look for his replacement. If we had just been happy with Ross we wouldn’t have taken Thomas when he was around and we’d really be hoping a guy like Haden fell to us. To me, we have to take whatever top talent falls to our draft position. In todays NFL you almost have to try to double your number of starters incase of injury and in order to keep your talent fresh at all times.
kujo, I absolutely agree regarding the need to shore up at DT. But I think that can be done after Round 1. I expect you’d agree. So the only question is do you take the best ILB rather than Haden, Morgan or Graham? I’d say “no” because I believe Goff will be okay (I am very confident that he will be better by the end of this season than Pierce was any time during the past three years) and I don’t think players like Haden, in particular, or Morgan and Graham come around frequently.
But like I said, I would certainly not be upset with the choice of McClain or Weatherspoon. What’s great about pick #15 is that it’s hard to believe Reese and Ross won’t come out of that slot with a really exciting player. The pain of last season is receding for me. If it took that to shake things up, make the coaching staff look in the mirror, and get Mara and Reese to get aggressive about getting Rolle, and we got the #15 pick to boot, well maybe it wasn’t as awful as it felt at the time.
Lawrence56TaylorFan and Troy,
No one is denying the utility and value of picking Haden. The issues, as I see it, are that a) you’d be passing up an opportunity to get a top player at a position of great need (e.g.- Price), and b) he’d be battling for a spot on the team as the #3 CB, which means that he’d start off at #4. Cynicism about Coughlin aside, your #1 pick, selected in the first half of the draft, needs to be on the goddamn field. And Haden would have a hard time doing that, assuming he’s even given the chance to.
Agreed but if they are worthy of that top pick they should start. Neither Thomas nor Ross have their names written in gold as starters. In fact, almost every season you can hear people arguing the validity of CWeb as a starter. To me you take the best talent period.
And how long have you been on a DT kick Kujo? I thought you were with me in that MLB is the biggest need? To me a DT can be found in round 2.
And we’re just using Haden as an example. If a OL drops to us we should take him. Even with the deal we just gave Rolle if a S drops to us we should take him. I believe in taking talent and not worrying so much about the position in round one. That especially goes from #20 and up. If you’re at the bottom of the round you try to look at the BPA and your position of need, to me anyway. If you’re at the top 2/3 of the 1RD I think you have to take the talent that falls to you. In the NFL the roster turn over is so rapid you have to over prepare, IMO.
I’ve been bouncing between DT and MLB at least every week. I just can’t shake the arguments of norm and FF55 that improving our defensive line, namely the DT position, will have the sort of multiplier effect that would allow us to put off improving our MLB. In fact, it might prove, at the least, that Jon Goff is good enough to be an average middle linebacker. He’ll be surrounded with more speed and youth than we’ve seen in Blue for a long time. And I think we could be pleasantly surprised, allowing that our defensive line is vastly improved and much healthier.
FF55,
The DT position could be addressed in the 2nd, for sure. But would the net effect of Haden be more than, say, Brian Price? I have a hard time believing that he or Morgan would be able to be more than the #3 or 4 guy on the depth chart due to existing players on our roster. And, as I said in my previous comments to Troy and LTFan, a player taken in the first half of the first round of THIS draft ought to be more than that.
I appreciate your argument, but I feel it can be weakened by extending it to a player who was, say, a quarterback. If Claussen or Bradford or McCoy were available to us at #15, would we take them, knowing that they would be great upgrades to our back up situation, and knowing that you just can’t pass up players of that quality? I think not, because they’re not wise expenditures of the pick and the place of the pick.
Note that Morgan and Haden would start out as #3 on the depth chart. They could certainly break through that placement over time. My point is that your #1 pick out to be positioned higher than that.
If Haden is there at #15, you can’t blame Reese for getting him, Ross and Thomas have “only” 2 years left on their contracts (correct me if im wrong here). Ross really has yet to live up to his potential and is too injury prone. TT has also been injury prone, especially going back to his days at USC.
Tomorrow will be big day for McClain, its Alabama’s Pro Day.
Thomas will be going into his 3rd season with us while Aaron Ross will be entering his 4th season. Not sure what their contact situation is though.
Would not mind another cornner, however, this D needs to be more physical and nasty in coverage situations. Linebacker and safety are my main concerns.
The only way I would take a DB with number 15 would be if that DB’s name was either Berry or Mays. Mays because you can use him two ways. LB and SS.
If Fewell has an imagination, Mays could be some kind of player for him. Other than that, give me McClain, or Spoon. And look for Johnson in the 4th round.
McClain or Spoon. Even if you want to believe Goff will be ok, we still need someone behind him in case he goes down, or we are in for more chase blackburn.
agreed.
Kujo- I agree we need to upgrade our DT position and I actually loved the Goff pick and expect him to improve a lot. If Spikes, whom I love, is around in 2RD we’d BETTER take him though. That being said, I’m leaning towards taking an OL or DT in the 1RD. I believe in building with the big fat guys. However, it kinda kills your 1RDers need to start argument when a DT would already be behind Canty with his huge contract and Cofield who is very good and a multi-year starter. I understand what you mean but its not like DT has any more opportunities to play immediately than CB does. In fact its almost the same exact thing if you say CWeb and Cofield are returning starters, Canty and Thomas are starting caliber guys that still have to show and prove (even though TT showed more as a Giant anyway) and that Ross and Cofield are returning from injuries. To me, the CB and DT positions have a lot more similarities to their current roster makeups.
Good points; however, if you are a defensive tackle and your last name is anything other than Suh or McCoy, you are going to have a steep learning curve. I never said that your 1RD pick should start; rather, I believe that, unless they blow everyone else at their position out of the water during training camp, they ought to be receiving exponentially increasing playing time as the season increases. Take, for instance, two contrasting examples from this year’s draft. Clint Sintim was touted as a potential 1RD pick, but somehow slipped to us in the 2RD. We take him because he’s big, physical and fast. He lead the country in sacks, so you know he can bring the pressure. But he can also be a solid OLB, certainly a better one than the incumbent of that position, Danny Clark. Yet, Tom Coughlin and Bill Sheridan refuse to give him anything resembling meaningful snaps, an atrocious decision which was only surpassed in stupidity by the identical decision to keep Danny Clark out there during the Vikings game. Now, we’ve got no idea whether Sintim could be an OLB. We can speculate, but we don’t know. On the other hand, we draft Hakeem Nicks who is solid in camp but doesn’t do much to oust Smith or Manningham (or Hixon, apparently) from their respective slots on the depth charts. He shows flashes in the early part of the season, so we see more of him. Then he really starts playing well, and he gets more snaps. Finally he’s named a starter about 3/4 of the way through the season. His increased workload gave him more experience and more opportunities to excel. It didn’t mean he didn’t screw up (e.g.- dropped passes against the Eagles and Cowboys). But he was coached up and allowed to learn from those mistakes.
My point here is that the players you select in the 1RD and 2RD ought to be making significant contributions to your team by halfway or 3/4 of the way through their first season. And, barring injury (an ever present eventuality with Ross thus far in his career), Haden and Morgan probably wouldn’t be able to do that. I could be wrong, but I really don’t think that I am. I’m not opposed to the players, and I know they’d be huge. But I just don’t think they’d be wise uses of our 1RD pick.
You gotta think its a MLB or OL in round 1. We have Bernard, Cofield, and Canty at DL, so I really think you can add depth at that position in rounds 2 and 3, but we also drafted Kiwi when we had the HOF Strahan and the Pro Bowler Osi so who knows. I think we have to go for a stud LB early, I really want a nasty SOB as our linebacker for years to come.
First round pick should be a DT. Price/Williams…
And my guess here – GOFF starts at MLB.
Goff actually should be fine if we can get more push upfront, drafting a DT for that, and better S play…Rolle.
Just curious, why has there been so little talk around the NFL about Morrison? Hes only a 3rd tender right? For a starting MLB that gets 100 tackles a year, on a terrible raider team….I would think he would be talked about more.
UPDATE UP TOP
So after all of this, how many of us feel that it would be fair to criticize a Reese draft selection? We can see that is an art, not a science. And it becomes even more complicated when you are a team that while young is still looking to win right now.
For my money, the best argument of them all for drafting McClain or Weatherspoon is that if Goff washes out there isn’t much behind him and that there probably aren’t any particularly great MLBs coming out next year either. So the Giants, who want to win now, and then win multiple times over the next five years, are taking a big chance if they stay with just Goff and possibly Wilkinson (I’m not counting Blackburn…love the guy but he doesn’t fit a Cover 2 at all). I think Goff will be fine, but do I want to risk two seasons on that assessment when he hasn’t shown enough yet upon which to build confidence?
I really like Price, but I’m not at all sure he is enough better than guys who will be available in the second round to justify using the #15 pick on him. And guess what? Defensive tackles are very risky picks. It is impossible to know how excellent college players will react to the very different inside game in the trenches at the NFL level. There have been a lot of busts at that position.
So any decision is fraught with risk. That’s why reese gets paid, and why the Giants spend a lot of money on scouting. They have far better information, and a far better assessment, of each of these players than any of us can hope to approach. We have our draft junkies, but Reese has data that makes whatever Samard, and Krow and others have look like it’s trivial. We will just have to trust in Reese. It has worked out pretty well so far.
I don’t know anything about the college kids, all my info leading up to the draft comes from here.
That being said, even with our glaring need at DT and MLB…if this Haden kid has a real chance to be a “shutdown” corner, I’d take him if he dropped.
MLB and DT are easier to fill with “stopgap” players (and from the sounds of it there will certainly be serviceable starters available at least at LB later in the draft – not to mention our own Goff may very well be just fine as a starter after a full offseason in that role at least for a little while as we look for an upgrade). Top tier CBs are up there with QBs and DEs as far as difficulty acquiring one.
Webster, TT, and Ross isn’t a long term solution anyway…decisions on both Webster and Ross will likely be coming soon. We certainly can use another starter prospect on our roster.